You Know What's Really Sad?

[mmc4]

I was in my history class yesterday, and we were reviewing our notes on Islam and the Muslim culture. We were talking about how the Islamic people would tax non-believers, and one girl said, "Well why didn't they just say they were Islamic so they didn't have to pay?" And my teacher explained that it would be denying their own god and lying about their faith, and she said, "Well it's like the Catholics being persecuted. Even though I'm a Catholic, I would've said I wasn't just so I wouldn't get killed. Then I'd go back to being Catholic."

That just hit me really hard. I can't even imagine how people can just be (insert religion here) when it's convenient for them. That's really bad. I don't think I'm the only one this bothers though.

[KnightofChrist]

Problem: She and those like her don't really believe or trust in Jesus Christ.

[VoTeckam]

I'm with you.

I once read and article though about a girl who denied her faith during the columbine tragedy and she was later flooded with guilt. I do not think she was catholic, but she was talking to her pastor about this and he told her it was not a sin beacuse to confess her faith at that moment would have been to essentially commit suicide.

While martyrdom is something that is obviously pius and noble, is it the right thing to do if say you have small children nobody else can care for? It is not as black and white as I'd like it to be.

[trustandgratitude]

hi, i'm new hear but this looks like an interesting topic.

[Seven77]

It sure bothered St. Thomas Moore. He was martyred for not going along with King Henry VIII and staying true to the Catholic Church.

[mmc4]

I know. It is true, I mean when you're held at gunpoint like that I'm sure it would be really hard for someone. Especially someone with young kids or someone who suffers under worse circumstances. That just struck me because that's not the only instance she's talked badly about her Faith; she aways complains about being Catholic saying that she hates it, but when it's convenient for her to be Catholic, say when a boy asks her, she admits it in a heartbeat.

[puellapaschalis]

Last week I watched [i]Karol: a man who became Pope[/i] on dvd (for the upteenth time!). Learning about Catholics who were shot by Nazis for really being Catholic is very confrontational.

[MIKolbe]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1852415' date='Apr 29 2009, 03:03 PM']Problem: She and those like her don't really believe or trust in Jesus Christ.[/quote]
yeah!!!

and if they did it three times, they could be just like Peter, and we all know HE really didn't believe or trust in Jesus Christ.

Leave the mind-reading and other omniscient skills to God.

thanks

[CatherineM]

There was a time in the church right after the original persecutions stopped that there was much debate on whether those who denied the faith to keep their jobs or positions, or lives, should be allowed to come back in. Some martyrs begged for forgiveness for those who couldn't stand up when it counted, sometimes right before being sent to the lions. So, they let them back in, but they had to do the whole "sack cloth and ashes" bit for a year or two.

[saintwannabe 777]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1852514' date='Apr 29 2009, 06:55 PM']There was a time in the church right after the original persecutions stopped that there was much debate on whether those who denied the faith to keep their jobs or positions, or lives, should be allowed to come back in. Some martyrs begged for forgiveness for those who couldn't stand up when it counted, sometimes right before being sent to the lions. So, they let them back in, but they had to do the whole "sack cloth and ashes" bit for a year or two.[/quote]

Now is one of those times when it counts. The persecutions will build and build and inevitably, they will return to those times.

[mmc4]

I just got back from Youth Group and we got letters back from the Bishop, and what his letter said was so ironic:

"...Let me tell you about two teenage Chinese martyrs:

One of the martyrs was a 14 year-old girl named Ann Wang who died during the Boxer Rebellion in 1900 because she refused to deny Jesus. Her executioners cut off her right arm to make her submit, but she remained firm. As she was about to be beheaded, three times she lovingly called out the name of Jesus.

Augustine Zhao Rong was a Chinese priest who was martyred with his 119 companions in 1815. Among their number was an 18 year-old boy, Chi Zhuzi, who had his right arm cut off by his executioners. As they prepared to skin him alive, he cried out: 'Every piece of my flesh and every drop of my blood will tell you that I am a Christian.'

That only made me wonder more about people who deny their Faith in the face of fear. Fear of rejection, death, or what have you.

[tinytherese]

[quote name='MIkolbe' post='1852510' date='Apr 29 2009, 06:52 PM']yeah!!!

and if they did it three times, they could be just like Peter, and we all know HE really didn't believe or trust in Jesus Christ.

Leave the mind-reading and other omniscient skills to God.

thanks[/quote]

Oh snap!

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='MIkolbe' post='1852510' date='Apr 29 2009, 05:52 PM']yeah!!!

and if they did it three times, they could be just like Peter, and we all know HE really didn't believe or trust in Jesus Christ.

Leave the mind-reading and other omniscient skills to God.

thanks[/quote]

When Peter denied Christ did Peter trust Christ? No, if Peter trusted in Christ those three times he would not have denied Him. When Peter denied Christ he rejected Christ, during those moments he did not really believe in Christ or he would not have denied Him.

When Peter denied the Holy Name of God, he denied God, I can not see how your logic works. Only that Peter later repented, believed and trusted in Christ. But at the moment of denying Christ, he did not trust or believe in the Lord.

Edited May 1, 2009 by KnightofChrist

[lost_in_this_world]

I used to think the same thing about Jewish people in the Holocaust. Now I know different.

[Sojourner]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1853796' date='Apr 30 2009, 08:36 PM']When Peter denied Christ did Peter trust Christ? No, if Peter trusted in Christ those three times he would not have denied Him. When Peter denied Christ he rejected Christ, during those moments he did not really believe in Christ or he would not have denied Him.

When Peter denied the Holy Name of God, he denied God, I can not see how your logic works. Only that Peter later repented, believed and trusted in Christ. But at the moment of denying Christ, he did not trust or believe in the Lord.[/quote]
I don't think that's a completely fair assessment of Peter's faith.

Just because a person falters in their faith in a time of duress does not mean they don't have faith/trust. It just means they are human and have a ways to go before their faith is perfected. A weak faith still exists, it is just not yet ready to face life-or-death challenges (which is what Peter was facing).

Development of faith is something like human development. You start out as a baby needing special care and feeding, and gradually grow into a fuller appreciation of what it means to be who you are. Peter had baby faith. It got bigger later, but I have no doubt it was still there when he denied Christ.