Former Ambassador To Vatican Turns Down Nd Award

[Sojourner]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1850526' date='Apr 27 2009, 04:17 PM']I wish my law school had a chapel.[/quote]
Ours has one. It's pretty sweet.

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' post='1850641' date='Apr 27 2009, 05:09 PM']I'd argue it's [b]a more insulting mockery[/b] to have a university bearing her name that does things like inviting the most pro-abortion president in history to speak at said university's commencement.[/quote]
Read that again.

Are you saying it's OK to mock the Blessed Mother as long as someone else is mocking her more?

I'm in no way excusing what's happened, but that does not give us a reason to add insult to injury. She still deserves our respect, even in how we write her name.

[mmc4]

USAir may have meant something else, but since I do agree, I in no way think it is OK to mock her, I think that it is mockery to bear her name when the university invites Obama to speak about abortion even though we as Christians/Catholics should really be pro-life.

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

A quick update from campus: students are seeking permission for a demonstration on graduation day.

[Brother Adam]

[quote name='Terra Firma' post='1850656' date='Apr 27 2009, 08:25 PM']Ours has one. It's pretty sweet.


Read that again.

Are you saying it's OK to mock the Blessed Mother as long as someone else is mocking her more?

I'm in no way excusing what's happened, but that does not give us a reason to add insult to injury. She still deserves our respect, even in how we write her name.[/quote]

Notre Dame = Our Lady
Notre Shame = Our Shame

While I find it to be in bad taste, I don't think saying "Notre Shame" (rather nuestra vergüenza) is an insult to Our Lady since the phrase does not mention Mary, rather the phrase strips the university of her name, and gives it a name that mocks the university.

[Sojourner]

[quote name='Brother Adam' post='1850677' date='Apr 27 2009, 05:40 PM']Notre Dame = Our Lady
Notre Shame = Our Shame

While I find it to be in bad taste, I don't think saying "Notre Shame" (rather nuestra vergüenza) is an insult to Our Lady since the phrase does not mention Mary, rather the phrase strips the university of her name, and gives it a name that mocks the university.[/quote]
OK, let's do a hypothetical. Let's say there's a parish where the priest habitually preaches really unengaging homilies. Would it be OK for people to mockingly call the parish "Nativity of Our Bored" instead of "Nativity of Our Lord"?

[thessalonian]

So Jenkins says he is going to offer the spot to another. Who do you think he'll be able to get. Certainly no faithful Catholic would accept this gig. Not now. He's boxed himself in with regard to pro-abortion Catholics. This is one heck of a hot potato.

Edited April 27, 2009 by thessalonian

[eagle_eye222001]

I don't see it as a mockery of Mary. It's raising the awareness that we as Catholics have a university that is Catholic in name and not Catholic in actions. Not the best...but I don't think it's morally wrong.

[quote name='Terra Firma' post='1850697' date='Apr 27 2009, 07:52 PM']OK, let's do a hypothetical. Let's say there's a parish where the priest habitually preaches really unengaging homilies. Would it be OK for people to mockingly call the parish "Nativity of Our Bored" instead of "Nativity of Our Lord"?[/quote]

Problem with that analogy is that it is assumed the homilies are within Catholic teaching whereas in Notre Dame's situation, the president is not acting within Catholic teaching.
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edit.

I hope another replacement turns it down. That would be awesome

Even if another Catholic accepts the replacement, this situation is already designated as going against Catholic teaching so the person will have to be comfortable with the negative faithful Catholic perception.

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Edited April 28, 2009 by eagle_eye222001

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='Terra Firma' post='1850697' date='Apr 27 2009, 06:52 PM']OK, let's do a hypothetical. Let's say there's a parish where the priest habitually preaches really unengaging homilies. Would it be OK for people to mockingly call the parish "Nativity of Our Bored" instead of "Nativity of Our Lord"?[/quote]
I wouldn't have (too big of) a problem with that either.
They aren't saying "Nativity of Our Bored Lord" (that wouldn't be nearly as witty anyway). If someone made a direct blashpheme, like merging the name of Our Lord with "sleaze" (I think you'll get what I'm saying), I'd consider that a blaspheme and an insult.
I don't think changing the name of a university to indicate a displeasure with it is reprehensible.
I guess I might look at it this way: would Our Lady want her name to be affiliated with a university that invited Obama? I mean, if a "Catholic" university that I started and called Stecker College invited Obama to speak long after I was dead and gone, I'd much rather them mock the university by calling it...I don't know, Stinker College or something, than to have my name associated with Obama.
Maybe Nuestra Señora feels differently.

[CatholicCid]

I think it's not done out of mockery, but out of the wanting to not associate our Lady with a University that currently may not be deserving of her.

From the University of Our Lady, or a University dedicated to the Blessed Virgin, to the University of Our shame, or a University that currently may not be living up to its Catholic identity and causing shame to the Catholic Faith.

First time I've heard someone mention it as a mockery of the Blessed Virgin. Perhaps if someone said "Notre Dame..." with an insult tagged on, I'd understand.

[Sojourner]

Look, I completely and totally recognize that the university's actions are reprehensible, and are an insult not only to the USCCB (as referenced in Glendon's letter) but also to the woman whose name it bears.

HOWEVER, I also believe that names have meaning, and I think it is an additional disrespect to maul the name of the university for the intention of mocking the university because it is the name of Our Lady. Even if the university does not do her honor, [i]we should[/i], in every way we can. There are PLENTY of ways, witty and otherwise, to call attention to the dishonor the university does to Our Lady without choosing one that mangles her name.

If you all are not interested in refraining out of respect for her, please refrain from doing it out of respect for me, in this thread at the very least. Perhaps by emphasizing the fact that this is Our Lady's university, Notre Dame, we can help bring about repentance. I am reminded of the saint (I don't know who off the top) who inspired repentance in a corrupt bishop by kissing his hands and reminding him of the holy mission he had been called to.

Let's aspire to something better.

[Sojourner]

[quote name='thessalonian' post='1850701' date='Apr 27 2009, 05:58 PM']So Jenkins says he is going to offer the spot to another. Who do you think he'll be able to get. Certainly no faithful Catholic would accept this gig. Not now. He's boxed himself in with regard to pro-abortion Catholics. This is one heck of a hot potato.[/quote]
No matter who he offers it to, he won't be able to undo the damage this has done. Glendon is very highly respected, and losing her support here is a PR blow. Hopefully no one else will accept.

[Jesuita]

TerraFira, that was a sweet post. You are an excellent writer and I completely agree with you. Props!

I also totally agree with the whole flaming sword thing
Okay maybe literal flaming swords are a tad difficult to get into the mail, maybe even into UPS, but I seriously think Phatmass or at least a group of PMers should send a sincere letter commending her for this. If no one else will, I'll send her one by myself.

[Sojourner]

[quote name='Jesuita' post='1850723' date='Apr 27 2009, 07:17 PM']TerraFira, that was a sweet post. You are an excellent writer and I completely agree with you. Props!

I also totally agree with the whole flaming sword thing
Okay maybe literal flaming swords are a tad difficult to get into the mail, maybe even into UPS, but I seriously think Phatmass or at least a group of PMers should send a sincere letter commending her for this. If no one else will, I'll send her one by myself.[/quote]
I was thinking a letter, at the very least, is in order.

Maybe we could also send her some phatmass stuff. I wonder if she would like a T-shirt ...

[Jesuita]

[quote]Maybe we could also send her some phatmass stuff. I wonder if she would like a T-shirt ...[/quote]

haha absolutely! She deserves to be recognized...in true Phatmass style. Perhaps someone could talk to dust about making it an official showing of Phatmass' support?

[Brother Adam]

[quote name='Terra Firma' post='1850718' date='Apr 27 2009, 09:13 PM']Look, I completely and totally recognize that the university's actions are reprehensible, and are an insult not only to the USCCB (as referenced in Glendon's letter) but also to the woman whose name it bears.

HOWEVER, I also believe that names have meaning, and I think it is an additional disrespect to maul the name of the university for the intention of mocking the university because it is the name of Our Lady. Even if the university does not do her honor, [i]we should[/i], in every way we can. There are PLENTY of ways, witty and otherwise, to call attention to the dishonor the university does to Our Lady without choosing one that mangles her name.

If you all are not interested in refraining out of respect for her, please refrain from doing it out of respect for me, in this thread at the very least. Perhaps by emphasizing the fact that this is Our Lady's university, Notre Dame, we can help bring about repentance. I am reminded of the saint (I don't know who off the top) who inspired repentance in a corrupt bishop by kissing his hands and reminding him of the holy mission he had been called to.

Let's aspire to something better.[/quote]


Just FYI, I do agree with you here. I do agree that "notre shame" is in very bad taste as I mentioned and there is no real reason for it. I still don't think it is an offense to Our Lady, but it doesn't really matter. I agree people should stop referring to the university that way.