Slappo Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 It is an act of humility to seek the intercession of the saints and the Blessed Mother. When we offer our prayers to God, it is like offering a pea to the King of Kings and Lord of Lords, but when we offer our prayers to Mary and ask her to then offer them to the King of Kings, they now become a pea placed on a golden platter presented to the King by His Queen and Mother. The kings in the line of David starting with Solomon began to take their mother as the queen of their kingdom rather then their wife. The main role of the queen mother or the Gebirah was to [b]intercede to the king on behalf of the people[/b]. Christ did not abolish this tradition with his place as a king in the line of David, rather he too took Mary as his queen and gave her the role of Gebirah. If Mary is the queen offering our petitions to the King, imagine the saints as being the Lords of the court, or really even better: the princes and princesses. Christ being king and we being his adopted brothers and sisters, we are made princes in his kingdom. It isn't so much that we need the intercession of the saints for salvation or any such thing, but that their intercession has been given to us as a gift. Other examples of intercessors in the OT would be Moses and the prophets. Christ didn't abolish the role of prophet either, rather now we are all baptized into the role of priest prophet and king. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 [quote name='Terra Firma' post='1847432' date='Apr 25 2009, 12:28 PM']I don't know ... I guess the problem I have with the way you've phrased it is that it sounds like Christ is unapproachable, and I don't think that is the case.[/quote] Sometimes people do present the veneration of the saints and prayers for their intercession in a way that makes is sound as if Christ is unapproachable or perhaps even somewhat unforgiving (i.e., as if He needs to be appeased), but this simply reveals a poor understanding of the nature of the incarnation and the importance of the Church. When we venerate saints or ask for their intercession it is Christ who lives in them that we venerate and beseech. The saints are icons of Christ, and so they are mystically a continuation of the incarnation through space and time. Ultimately, all mediation between God and man is worked out through Christ, but when we speak of "Christ" in this sense, we mean the Whole Christ, i.e., the Head and the Body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slappo Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 [quote name='Apotheoun' post='1848607' date='Apr 25 2009, 09:14 PM']When we venerate saints or ask for their intercession it is Christ who lives in them that we venerate and beseech. The saints are icons of Christ, and so they are mystically a continuation of the incarnation through space and time. Ultimately, all mediation between God and man is worked out through Christ, but when we speak of "Christ" in this sense, we mean the Whole Christ, i.e., the Head and the Body.[/quote] Much better said then anything I could have written. Would Eastern theology have problems with the analogy I used of the pea and the plate? I'm sure you're familiar with the analogy. It would seem that from the prospective of saints as icons of Christ and it is Christ written into the saints that we are venerating, that the pea & plate analogy would fail. I really like the saints as icons explanation. Very beautiful. I actually want to learn more about icons. I prefer the Eastern tradition of icons to the West's use of statues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaeology cat Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 [quote name='Dr_Asik' post='1847532' date='Apr 25 2009, 08:41 PM']Well at least you've refuted the "Christ is the sole intercessor" argument. Noe they've made it into "Christ is the sole [i]living[/i] intercessor" which doesn't look quite as impressive [/quote] [quote name='Slappo' post='1848590' date='Apr 26 2009, 06:01 AM']It is an act of humility to seek the intercession of the saints and the Blessed Mother.[/quote] I like all of what you wrote, but just wanted to take the time to point out this part. It is very much an act of humility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortify Posted April 26, 2009 Author Share Posted April 26, 2009 Thank you guys, these posts have been very helpful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilllabettt Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 [quote name='Archaeology cat' post='1847514' date='Apr 25 2009, 04:36 PM']Yeah, that's what I usually do, too. Though I sometimes get a retort of "but they're dead!". [/quote] The answer I give to this is "The Lord is is the Lord of the living, not the dead." If we are comparing "aliveness" on the truest level ... the Saints are way more alive in Heaven than we are on earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beatus Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 We should all pray to the saints and hold them in the highest esteem as Holy Mother Church directs us to do. They should further be our examples in holiness as we strive to live in grace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 Christians have always asked the Saints for intercession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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