Gay & Catholic

[AdAltareDei]

[quote name='Archaeology cat' post='1845770' date='Apr 24 2009, 06:31 AM']Jake,

I honestly can't imagine being in your position, so I won't pretend to understand. I do know that I've tried to think about what I would do if I were in such a position. I know my heart would ache for such a love. The only thing I would know to do is to pray, and to submit to the Church (easier said than done, I know; there were things to which I didn't want to submit when I was converting). Take it to Jesus in Adoration, if you can. Daily Mass, if you can (I don't know what your schedule is like or anything). And rest assured that you will be in my prayers.

I admire you for having researched so much already, and for writing to the Bishop for guidance - I can't say I would have been able to do that at 18.

God bless.[/quote]

haha
I love reading your posts
Always so charitable but orthodox.
Your new baby is beautiful by the way.

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='AdAltareDei' post='1845816' date='Apr 24 2009, 02:06 PM']HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA
I just noticed someone edited my swear word to "croutons" and burst out laughing.[/quote]
Yeah, the filt[i][/i]ers do that with certain words.

[quote name='AdAltareDei' post='1845819' date='Apr 24 2009, 02:10 PM']haha
I love reading your posts
Always so charitable but orthodox.
Your new baby is beautiful by the way.[/quote]
Thank you. All by the grace of God. Now if I could just have tact IRL.

[Brother Adam]

Thessalonian is absolutely right, please don't ignore his posts. God does not give you the urge to be in a sexual relationship with someone of the same sex anymore than God gave Thess the urges to lust after other women, or the urges for me to look at pornography when I was a teenager. Disordered sexual desires are the result of the fall and do not come from God. I'm guessing it was just as difficult for Thess to overcome lust as it was for me, and will be for you to live a chaste life in light of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Likely your cross will be even more difficult to carry. You are seeking out something that is holy - a loving relationship - in a way that is unholy - through disordered desires. Even if you are called to live a celibate life, the power of the cross that you will carry I have no doubt will bring many people, including yourself, to eternal salvation. With grace, you can be a catalyst to plant many seeds that the Holy Spirit will grow and harvest. Seek ye first the kingdom!

Edited April 24, 2009 by Brother Adam

[Moosey]

Jake,

All I have to say is, you are an extraordinary kid. I've never known someone in your situation. I agree with what most everyone is saying, that you have an enormous cross to bear and such. Let me just say that if you can take hold of this and embrace your faith and carry this cross, you will be an amazing witness to the gays in the Church. I'm praying for you dude. The Blessed Mother is listening to you.

~katy

[LouisvilleFan]

AdAltareDei,

It's awesome that you're able to handle a conversation like this so well. A topic doesn't get much more personal and intimate and strike to the core of our being than our sexuality. If nothing else, I pray that you will continue exploring and seeking God through your sexuality. We all need to, really.

You know, I've read that Song of Songs is regarded by rabbis (perhaps moreso during the time of Christ) as containing more wisdom and Godly insight than the rest of the Hebrew Bible combined. How many times have you heard a sermon or read a book on Song of Songs? We overlook it today and I imagine we are missing a lot.

[quote name='AdAltareDei' post='1845747' date='Apr 24 2009, 06:23 AM']I've been thinking about what you've all written. To be honest before the start of this year I never thought of being a practicing Catholic and having a future boyfriend. It was always one or the other. At one point it was embrace chastity and at another it was embrace my sexuality.[/quote]

This is a common misconception about chastity, and it may be the root of much of our confusion. The call to chastity is universal and it's actually through chastity that we embrace our sexuality. Think about that and let it sink it because it runs completely counter to everything we are told today: the world says we must explore our sexuality and imbibe in various ways of fantasizing about and having sex in order to learn about our sexuality, but the Church tells us that it's actually through abstaining from sexual activity that we learn about our sexuality. Abstinence is counter-cultural, regardless of your orientation, but it is a beautiful gift if we embrace it.

Now, embracing is the key verb. We could be abstinent through repression of sexual desires, but burying and ignoring the key to our identity will only plant the seeds of a psychological and spiritual cancer waiting to break out decades later. We cannot deny something successfully without embracing something else in its place... people who are trying to quit smoking know they need to find a substitute for the thing they use smoking for, whether it's relieving stress, socializing, the high feeling or whatever. That fundamental rule applies even moreso with growing in virtue.

You are a really good writer... one thing I observe is that one can admire beauty in another person (even if its the sex they are attracted to) without it being an overtly sexual attraction. It doesn't have to be sexual at all, in fact. One of the early saints of the Church was a prostitute who converted after a bishop looked at her as a beautiful woman made in the image of God. She knew the gaze of men who only wanted her body, but his eyes looked at her differently and God touched her through a celibate man consecrated to himself. She too embraced celibacy. She found in God the intimacy, love, and personal communion that she was seeking through sex. And what more could any of us want (at least if we aren't completely selfish)? This is part of a story that Christopher West tells in one of his Theology of the Body talks.

Consider the lie that Playboy magazine sells: God made women beautiful and we are simply admiring their beauty. Is sex really how we admire beauty?

[quote name='AdAltareDei' post='1845747' date='Apr 24 2009, 06:23 AM']But I've started coming back to the faith, little by little. I was making the stations of the cross on a friday during lent and I started thinking "maybe this (homosexuality) is my cross".[/quote]

Indeed, I'm sure that it is, and nearly all of us find a cross in our sexuality because we all abuse it in some way. Those epiphanies are pretty awesome!

[quote name='AdAltareDei' post='1845747' date='Apr 24 2009, 06:23 AM']But I don't think I want to lead a life without the Church, and if the Church is right I don't want to risk losing my soul.[/quote]

Perhaps at this point the Church teaching feels impersonal and distant? Like you could obey if you had to, but it wouldn't be coming from your heart?

I have another thought to share, but I need to flesh it out more in my head before writing it out. This is probably enough for now... I encourage you to ask these questions and read the advice you find here and elsewhere (Christopher West is a great resource) and pray on it in quiet meditation. We find God and Truth in the still, quiet places of our hearts and minds... that's why the world wants us to have a lot of sex, because the noise will shut out God's still, soft voice.

Peace,
Jason

Edited April 24, 2009 by LouisvilleFan

[Guest KevinSymonds]

AdAltareDei,
-Peace be with you! I hope you have noticed my PM to you.

[Lilllabettt]

This is not just a gay thing.

It's probably impossible for me to get married, since I've developed an illness which requires I take a certain kind of medicine. This medicine causes severe birth defects; so I would never be able to have "unprotected" sex. The Church teaches against contraception, so I almost certainly will not ever be married.

I was in religious life for 2 years when I got sick. I was, I guess 'involuntarily terminated," you know, because of it. My heart longs for this life. It is still technically possible, but you know what, serious illness is an impediment to religious life, and I doubt its going to happen.

In school, I was studying International Affairs, with an International Development concentration. This was my dream, to go to the poorest countries and do aid work. Well, the fact is, that is most likely not possible now.

I know a woman who has been abandoned by her husband. She is in her thirties. No possibility of an annulment. She is facing living the next 40 yrs of her life without a partner.

Deny thyself, pick up your cross and follow me. Some people need to deny themselves in radical ways in order to get that right. This was the case with me. I was too weak to deny myself in any meaningful way, so God did it for me.

[Moosey]

Oh my gosh Lillabett. I didn't know that about you My heart goes out to you. Have you read about St Therese's mother, Zelie Martin? Her situation reminded me of yours in a way even though she got married and had five daughters. If not, I'd recommend reading "The Mother of the Little Flower." This was the only book that made me cry.

Okay, sorry to go off topic. Continue.

Edited April 24, 2009 by Moosey

[AdAltareDei]

Thats a beautiful story.
I'm sorry to hear about the marriage thing.
Why cant you enter the religious life? What impediment is medication :s
especially if you enter a contemplative order?

[missionseeker]

It's not the medication, so much as the illness. It's always been that way. I'm not sure why. Maybe it has something to do with paying for health care?

[Jaime]

Jake not for nothin, but I will repeat what I said in your introductory thread. I get that its a struggle for you and you want to do God's will. But it would be good to get your facts straight (pardon the pun) on Church teaching. You may have issues with them you may not. But you've been taught wrong.

Also Jake there is more to you than your sexual attractions. I know that because there is more to all my friends here on phatmass than their sexual attractions.

[AdAltareDei]

[quote name='hot stuff' post='1845891' date='Apr 24 2009, 11:21 AM']Jake not for nothin, but I will repeat what I said in your introductory thread. I get that its a struggle for you and you want to do God's will. But it would be good to get your facts straight (pardon the pun) on Church teaching. You may have issues with them you may not. But you've been taught wrong.

Also Jake there is more to you than your sexual attractions. I know that because there is more to all my friends here on phatmass than their sexual attractions.[/quote]

No. I know what the Churches teaching on homosexuality is. And that it is an extension of the idea of procreative and uniative sex.
Clearly acts when between members of the same sex can't be procreative.

I know theres more to me than my sexuality, but it is a big part. As is anyones husband/wife/partner in their life.

[missionseeker]

Here is his original post. (Cuz I think you didn't take what he was saying the way he meant it. )

[quote name='hot stuff' post='1843437' date='Apr 22 2009, 09:34 AM']Jake

Welcome to Phatmass. I'm glad you're here and I hope its for a long long time.



Well you are absolutely correct that God desires our salvation. However, I have to point out that someone has taught you in error. God has never called you an abomination



Again you need to go back and smack upside the head whoever taught you that in your years of study Jake. The Church does not teach that you are intrinsically disordered. If the Church taught you were intrinsically disordered, it would be teaching that you COULD NOT EVER go to heaven. Ever. When something is intrinsic, it is an aspect that is unchanging.

I hope you stick around Jake and engage the folks here. Like anyplace, you'll find some folks here that are likeable and some who are annoying. But there are folks who have the education and the background to accurately demonstrate what the Church teaches. And from what you've been taught so far, it looks like it would be helpful.

Something else I'd throw out for your consideration Jake. We all struggle with sin. It's our nature. Sometimes we have struggles with what the Church teaches. But whatever my sins are or what struggles I've had with the teachings of the Church, it doesn't create my identity. I have several friends who are gay. None of them are embarrassed by it or ashamed but none of them feel the need to make it the core of their identity either.

On the same note, I have very learned friends who think women should be allowed to be priests, but they don't lead off with it.

My point is that if you have considered priesthood and are concerned about children feeling wanted, there is much much more to you than the idea that you are attracted to men. Those are qualities I (for one) am much more interested in learning about.[/quote]

[Jaime]

[quote name='AdAltareDei' post='1845896' date='Apr 24 2009, 11:27 AM']No. I know what the Churches teaching on homosexuality is. And that it is an extension of the idea of procreative and uniative sex.
Clearly acts when between members of the same sex can't be procreative.

I know theres more to me than my sexuality, but it is a big part. As is anyones husband/wife/partner in their life.[/quote]

Well I'm sorry but you've made some statements that show me you aren't quite up to speed bud. That's ok. Your misconceptions are pretty common. There's a lot of smart folks who have the same misunderstandings.

[Piccoli Fiori JMJ]

Jake, this may be echoing what has already been said, but God and His Church is not asking you to repress your sexuality. It is part of who you are as a human person and individual. Like LouisvilleFan said, it will cause more problems and really not even solve anything. But, we cannot ignore our desire to be loved.

The deepest desire of the human heart is [i]to[/i] love and [i]be[/i] loved. We all have this desire because God placed it in our hearts from the very beginning. We all know this and seek it, although many seek it in a twisted way, e.g. pornography, masturbation, fornication, etc. (because of the deceiver). I think it is important to know and love yourself and God before we can begin to authentically love others. You are young, faithful, and have a wonderful future before you. Take some time and continue discerning, continuing learning, and never stop loving authentically.

Also, chastity is a yes to love, rather than a bunch of no's pushing you down into submission. It sets you free to love as God loves, in a total self gift to others. "Chastity means the sucessful integration of sexuality within the person and this the inner unity of man in his bodily and spiritual being" CCC 2337. The communion of love, the Holy Trinity, invites us to share in their communion of love, and in turn we are asked to share this communion with others. This love seeks always first the good of others than for yourself. It's kind of like the expression of J.O.Y.: Jesus, Others, You. "Man can fully discover his true self only in a sincere gift of self." And love doesn't always feel good. It isn't always a warm fuzzy feeling. Giving yourself totally to others can be painful, even stressful! Also, we were never meant to be alone. God gives us others to share this great gift of love.

"Chastity is a difficult, long-term matter; one must wait patiently for it to bear fruit, for the happiness of loving kindness which it must bring. But at the same time, chastity is the sure way to happiness"
-John Paul II

I think that you may be interested in reading John Paul II's Theology of the Body. I have begun to study it a bit and am presenting it at our high school youth groups. I think you could find a lot of answers to many of your questions. Some of it is difficult to get through, but it really brings a message of joy, hope, and most of all, love. I think you'd be surprised what a celibate man knows about love, sex, and relationships.

I think it is good that you continue to seek answers to your questions as well. May your search bring you to the joy that God has prepared for you from the very beginning. God bless you abundantly, Jake!