Gay & Catholic

[AdAltareDei]

Well, I'm sure most of you have seen my introduction thread.

[url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=93169"]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=93169[/url]

I've been thinking about what you've all written. To be honest before the start of this year I never thought of being a practicing Catholic and having a future boyfriend. It was always one or the other. At one point it was embrace chastity and at another it was embrace my sexuality.

Its been pretty up and down, I think I might let you guys in on some stuff.
When I was 14 and I started to grow into my sexuality I felt very confused and guilty. I remember one day after Mass I went a knelt in the Lady Chapel and lit a candle. I started pouring my heart out to Our Lady and just cried and cried, I couldn't understand why God didn't want me to find someone to love and love me in return, and I still don't. I wanted to be a good Catholic so bad, but I didn't understand why God would make me like this if I wasn't allowed to ever get married and love someone like everyone else. But back then I accepted things much more easily. I lasted for two years, embracing chastity and attending Mass regularly.

Everything went well until I turned 16 and met the most amazing boy. I don't think I loved him, I mean I was only 16. I hate teenagers that act like they're in love. But I cared about him so much, he cared about me so much. He liked me, I liked him. He looked so perfect.
I couldn't understand why God wouldn't want me to fall in love. After all, God is Love, right? How could such amazing feelings be evil. So I put my faith aside and went out with this guy for a long time. I can't even explain how much he meant to me so I will just share something I wrote about our first date.

[quote]I remember staring at you from across the street, feigning indifference. Desperately hoping that my aloof exterior didn’t betray the nervousness welling up inside my chest. “Hey” I managed to choke out as you descended upon me, arms wrapping around my neck.

We found ourselves behind federation square. The freshly cut grass tickled the back of our necks and the blades still bore the morning dew. We reminisced about earlier years, laughing in retrospect at our former selves. We watched as light danced across the still waters and I caught you staring at me from the periphery of your vision.

You lead the way to St. Jerome’s, narrating the streets to me. Laughing as I confused what to you was innate. The flimsy wooden door slowly shut behind me as I peered around, admiring the eclectic interior of the run-down building. Tea pots adorned the walls and small candles lined the floors. We sat outside, in an alleyway decorated with graffiti. I sunk into the couch, and to my delight you flung yourself next to me.

Tension hung heavy in the air and expectations ran high. You leaned into me when you spoke. The smell of beer lingered on your warm breath, flooding over my skin. I studied the creases in your face and the freckles that dotted the bridge of your nose.

The sun slipped back under the horizon, the night sky a canvas painted with hues of dark blue and silver. Stars shone resplendently until the city lights drowned them out in a cheap glow.

The platform was bare. Remnants of the “MX Press” littered the ground and a faulty neon-light flickered above us, emitting a soft buzz. Our bodies perfectly aligned. The distant roar of my train approaching grew louder, echoing through the subway.

I boarded the train.
Looked out the window, smiling.
So were you.[/quote]

Hopefully you can gather how good I felt and how much I liked him. And I just couldn't believe that these feelings were evil. I still can't.

But I've started coming back to the faith, little by little. I was making the stations of the cross on a friday during lent and I started thinking "maybe this (homosexuality) is my cross".

I had lots of mini "epiphanies" like this, if you please.
Just a few days ago I was praying the Rosary (sorrowful mysteries) and as I meditated on Our Lord in the Garden of Gethsemane and his words "let this cup pass from my lips", that even Our Lord didn't want to bear his cross. But he did, because he knew the will of the Father was more important than his own desires.


I'm by no means sold, guys. I don't accept homosexuality is evil or anything.
But I don't think I want to lead a life without the Church, and if the Church is right I don't want to risk losing my soul.

I don't know what I am asking here, what do you advise I do?
Being gay means I have to remain single all my life. I really don't think I could be happy living without a partner for the rest of my life.

I mean, married couples, what would you do if someone told you you had to leave your husband/wife?

Can you imagine life if you hadn't been allowed to love/marry them?

I don't know.
Advice?
Opinions?

Edited April 24, 2009 by AdAltareDei

[Guest]

Peace bro.
First off props on your honesty as it must be tough to put all of that out there like that. The advice I would give you as someone who is single and plans on staying single their whole life, is just deal with it. I mean in the new testement it is obvious God is against gay marriage or guys hooking up. Just like God is against fornication between a man and a woman even masturbation. There all mortal sin so I cant really feel sorry for you because at the end of the day i'm in the same boat as you sin wise. I still think it's possible if you are really open to it that God can heal you and put the desire for females back in your life or put it in your life for the 1st time. I mean that is the way God intended it. He did not intend for you to like males. Again i'm not attacking you just saying how it is. You sound like somebody who wants a parter and if you really want that I think God can heal you. As far as it feeling so right, it feels so right to me to when I fornicate wether it be with a female or it's masturbation. Sorry to be blunt but it's the truth. But after that "feeling so right" guilt sets in. And it's because I know it's wrong and i've seperated myself from God. I'm sure you will get some great advice in this thread so Godbless and prayers !

Edited April 24, 2009 by Guest

[AdAltareDei]

hahaha thanks.
But God doesn't turn gay people straight. Thats fundamentalist, evangelical protestant croutons.
But thanks for the reply.
Why are you remaining single for the rest of your life?

[Guest]

[quote name='AdAltareDei' post='1845754' date='Apr 24 2009, 05:05 AM']hahaha thanks.
But God doesn't turn gay people straight. Thats fundamentalist, evangelical protestant croutons.
But thanks for the reply.
Why are you remaining single for the rest of your life?[/quote]

Godbless bro I would disagree that God doesnt turn gay people straight. Thats like saying God doesnt deliver a drunk or a drug addict. Or saying God can't deliver a adulter. You know what i'm saying ? You can be healed dont underestimate God. As far as me being single i'm a crazy messed up dude. I have trust issues from my parents getting a divorse and I also see the freedome in being single and I really like that. At the same time I have to be carefull not to fall into sin my whole life and risk my salvation. That is why I see where you are coming from and feel im in the same boat. Because I really do think I will be single my whole life. So it's going to be tough but at the same time God can get me through just like He can you. You're young bro I wouldnt count God out on healing you. Prayres ! And when I say God healing you I dont mean that in a judgemental way. I mean it in a sincere serious way. Let me ask you a question. If God [font="Arial Black"]could[/font] heal you and deliver you from having same sex attraction and have you be attracted to females would you let Him ? Do you want that at all ?

Edited April 24, 2009 by Guest

[goldenchild17]

Ad Altare Dei, I'm not going to pretend like I know what its like. I don't and I think it smells of elderberries the position you're in. But I just wanted to say that I do still think it would be a sin to act on homosexual feelings. And I am not yet sure whether or not God can create this tendency in a person or not, but I'm definitely becoming more open to the idea. I think its possible that many (possibly most) people are born with some sort of something inside of them that makes them who they are and that makes us all different. While in many ways this is good as it gives us all different interests and different abilities I wonder if we are also given certain tendencies to lean towards certain types of sin. Maybe you were given the cross of homosexuality and maybe another person is given the cross of anger or another person the cross of drunkenness. I don't mean to compare these types of things, although by putting them altogether here it may seem that way. I'm just not sure how else to make the point.

Basically what I'm getting at is this, maybe its possible that we are all born with particular crosses that we are called by God to deal with. Not all of them may be sins, some are born into particularly poor circumstances, some are predisposed to disease, what-have-you.

As regards sexual sins in particular, I'm not a theologian so I don't know how to explain the teachings to you any better than anyone here, but all I can say is that I have personal experience with people very close to me who are dealing with a physical problem (without going into any particular detail) that, according to the Church, makes it an impediment to marriage, meaning that this person cannot get married unless this problem either goes away or is cured. This person is REALLY and I mean REALLY has struggled with this and still is. And sometimes it makes it hard to believe a law could be put in place to keep this person from getting married simply because of a physical defect that is out of this person's control. But so far (I'm not saying this person won't fall away but as of now still going strong) this person has put their mind aside and is trying to just trust the Church on this issue.

I don't mean to compare you're situation to this person's necessarily, although maybe I was I dunno . Of course there are differences, I don't know if homosexuality may be considered a medical disorder at some point or if there will one day be a medical cure for it just as the person I told you about is. I don't know these things, and I don't mean to be offensive by referring to homosexuality as a possible medical (or psychological) disorder. I just have to wonder.

Anyways, I don't really know what I am suggesting with all of this, I would say just pray as much as you can, and go to Mass as much as you can (I personally would hope that you still refrain from Communion until you work this out, but that's something you need to decide yourself) but still go to Mass definitely, and yeah I'll pray for you.

peace

[Guest]

[quote name='goldenchild17' post='1845756' date='Apr 24 2009, 06:21 AM']Ad Altare Dei, I'm not going to pretend like I know what its like. I don't and I think it smells of elderberries the position you're in. But I just wanted to say that I do still think it would be a sin to act on homosexual feelings. And I am not yet sure whether or not God can create this tendency in a person or not, but I'm definitely becoming more open to the idea. I think its possible that many (possibly most) people are born with some sort of something inside of them that makes them who they are and that makes us all different. While in many ways this is good as it gives us all different interests and different abilities I wonder if we are also given certain tendencies to lean towards certain types of sin. Maybe you were given the cross of homosexuality and maybe another person is given the cross of anger or another person the cross of drunkenness. I don't mean to compare these types of things, although by putting them altogether here it may seem that way. I'm just not sure how else to make the point.

Basically what I'm getting at is this, maybe its possible that we are all born with particular crosses that we are called by God to deal with. Not all of them may be sins, some are born into particularly poor circumstances, some are predisposed to disease, what-have-you.

As regards sexual sins in particular, I'm not a theologian so I don't know how to explain the teachings to you any better than anyone here, but all I can say is that I have personal experience with people very close to me who are dealing with a physical problem (without going into any particular detail) that, according to the Church, makes it an impediment to marriage, meaning that this person cannot get married unless this problem either goes away or is cured. This person is REALLY and I mean REALLY has struggled with this and still is. And sometimes it makes it hard to believe a law could be put in place to keep this person from getting married simply because of a physical defect that is out of this person's control. But so far (I'm not saying this person won't fall away but as of now still going strong) this person has put their mind aside and is trying to just trust the Church on this issue.

I don't mean to compare you're situation to this person's necessarily, although maybe I was I dunno . Of course there are differences, I don't know if homosexuality may be considered a medical disorder at some point or if there will one day be a medical cure for it just as the person I told you about is. I don't know these things, and I don't mean to be offensive by referring to homosexuality as a possible medical (or psychological) disorder. I just have to wonder.

Anyways, I don't really know what I am suggesting with all of this, I would say just pray as much as you can, and go to Mass as much as you can (I personally would hope that you still refrain from Communion until you work this out, but that's something you need to decide yourself) but still go to Mass definitely, and yeah I'll pray for you.

peace[/quote]



Peace G.C.
That is one thing I cant grasp (along with many others lol) that God would create someone gay and then tell them they can't act on it. That is why I always thought people weren't born that way. But the more and more I hear it seems as if people are born that way. So what do I know. But I just find it troubling that God would allow someone to be born gay and yet hate it so much at the same time. Thats why I still personally hold to that God doesnt make peole that way or desire it. But I also know God doesnt desire straight people to fornicate or masturbate. So were all in this together I guess. Prayers for the Pure Life.

Edited April 24, 2009 by Guest

[Archaeology cat]

Jake,

I honestly can't imagine being in your position, so I won't pretend to understand. I do know that I've tried to think about what I would do if I were in such a position. I know my heart would ache for such a love. The only thing I would know to do is to pray, and to submit to the Church (easier said than done, I know; there were things to which I didn't want to submit when I was converting). Take it to Jesus in Adoration, if you can. Daily Mass, if you can (I don't know what your schedule is like or anything). And rest assured that you will be in my prayers.

I admire you for having researched so much already, and for writing to the Bishop for guidance - I can't say I would have been able to do that at 18.

God bless.

[Sirklawd]

Hi again.

One thing that isn't mentioned enough to people seeking love is that God wants to love us first. That thirsting for love we have in us is a thirst for God. We're all human and we're all wounded walking around with questions like "can i be loved", "am I worthy of someone's love", "will someone really love me and mean it?" (it seems me and delivery boy are in the same boat).. and we all first look to other people to answer those questions. Except...those people have the same issues.

That doesn't mean we shouldn't have relationships, it means we cant root our security and self worth in another person. Other people, no matter how awesome, are still imperfect. God is perfect. God created us. He knows everything there is about us. He knows our fears and hopes, and our long lost dreams that we've buried, and our long lost pains that we've used to bury our dreams. He alone can give us the self confidence and love that our hearts want.

I humbly suggest to take your prayer life to a much deeper level. (Everyone should, I should...) As you look for answers turn your heart to God. This doesn't mean consider a religious life or anything, but it probably wouldn't hurt to consult those people on pray tips. God will never stop giving as long as you are asking.

This goes all back to relationships because in the end marriage isn't just a blissful romance. It's a vocation. It takes effort. There are going to be tough times that pressure people, and the chain holding them together is weak if they are dependent on each other. But if they are both tied to God. God will keep them both whole, and both strong. They can handle the duty of marriage, and withstand the turmoil and troubles. This isnt a homosexual thing, but a relationship thing. Everyone has these problems.

Oh also, again, chastity isnt just for homosexuals. It's for everyone. in a relationship or not.

[Adrestia]

I don't have any advice, but I do know others who have the same struggles and they are always in my prayers. I just wanted to let you know that I will also pray for you - that you find peace.

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='Sirklawd' post='1845796' date='Apr 24 2009, 01:25 PM']Hi again.

One thing that isn't mentioned enough to people seeking love is that God wants to love us first. That thirsting for love we have in us is a thirst for God. We're all human and we're all wounded walking around with questions like "can i be loved", "am I worthy of someone's love", "will someone really love me and mean it?" (it seems me and delivery boy are in the same boat).. and we all first look to other people to answer those questions. Except...those people have the same issues.

That doesn't mean we shouldn't have relationships, it means we cant root our security and self worth in another person. Other people, no matter how awesome, are still imperfect. God is perfect. God created us. He knows everything there is about us. He knows our fears and hopes, and our long lost dreams that we've buried, and our long lost pains that we've used to bury our dreams. He alone can give us the self confidence and love that our hearts want.

I humbly suggest to take your prayer life to a much deeper level. (Everyone should, I should...) As you look for answers turn your heart to God. This doesn't mean consider a religious life or anything, but it probably wouldn't hurt to consult those people on pray tips. God will never stop giving as long as you are asking.

This goes all back to relationships because in the end marriage isn't just a blissful romance. It's a vocation. It takes effort. There are going to be tough times that pressure people, and the chain holding them together is weak if they are dependent on each other. But if they are both tied to God. God will keep them both whole, and both strong. They can handle the duty of marriage, and withstand the turmoil and troubles. This isnt a homosexual thing, but a relationship thing. Everyone has these problems.

Oh also, again, chastity isnt just for homosexuals. It's for everyone. in a relationship or not.[/quote]
Definitely agree.

[AdAltareDei]

[quote name='Sirklawd' post='1845796' date='Apr 24 2009, 07:25 AM']Hi again.

One thing that isn't mentioned enough to people seeking love is that God wants to love us first. That thirsting for love we have in us is a thirst for God. We're all human and we're all wounded walking around with questions like "can i be loved", "am I worthy of someone's love", "will someone really love me and mean it?" (it seems me and delivery boy are in the same boat).. and we all first look to other people to answer those questions. Except...those people have the same issues.

That doesn't mean we shouldn't have relationships, it means we cant root our security and self worth in another person. Other people, no matter how awesome, are still imperfect. God is perfect. God created us. He knows everything there is about us. He knows our fears and hopes, and our long lost dreams that we've buried, and our long lost pains that we've used to bury our dreams. He alone can give us the self confidence and love that our hearts want.

I humbly suggest to take your prayer life to a much deeper level. (Everyone should, I should...) As you look for answers turn your heart to God. This doesn't mean consider a religious life or anything, but it probably wouldn't hurt to consult those people on pray tips. God will never stop giving as long as you are asking.

This goes all back to relationships because in the end marriage isn't just a blissful romance. It's a vocation. It takes effort. There are going to be tough times that pressure people, and the chain holding them together is weak if they are dependent on each other. But if they are both tied to God. God will keep them both whole, and both strong. They can handle the duty of marriage, and withstand the turmoil and troubles. This isnt a homosexual thing, but a relationship thing. Everyone has these problems.

Oh also, again, chastity isnt just for homosexuals. It's for everyone. in a relationship or not.[/quote]

I agree for the most part.
I am all for chastity.
I just find it hard to believe and accept that God wants me to go through life desiring a loving connection with another human being, but not being able to ever love someone or be loved in return without commiting a mortal sin.
Atleast heterosexuals can get married and have a loving relationship.

[kenrockthefirst]

Hi, Jake, I'd like to address one of your central arguments, to wit, that God made you as you are. It's true that we are all created in God's image and that we all share an inherent dignity that derives from being made in God's image. However, we live in a Fallen world and as a consequence, we are all "broken" to some degree. Sometimes that brokenness is obvious, e.g. physical impairment; sometimes it isn't so obvious, e.g. emotional or mental illness. In a non-Fallen world, we would never have to deal with these "disabilities." In this world, we do. The answer is not to say, "my brokenness is how God made me and so that's all right, then." It's to say, "my brokenness can be used by God for His glory and my edification." You will of course recall that St. Paul had a "thorn" that he prayed be removed but that wasn't. That was to show that God's power is made perfect in weakness. Ultimately, we are all weak, frail, limited, broken human beings but God works all things together for the good for those who love Him and are called according to His purpose. I don't know how to advise you other than to say I don't think the "if it feels good do it" approach is for your best or any of our best, for that matter.

My two cents, for what they're worth.

Pax Christi

[thessalonian]

[quote name='AdAltareDei' post='1845754' date='Apr 24 2009, 06:05 AM']hahaha thanks.
But God doesn't turn gay people straight. Thats fundamentalist, evangelical protestant croutons.
But thanks for the reply.
Why are you remaining single for the rest of your life?[/quote]


I am not going to solve all of your confusion in one post. The best that I can do is to send you to www.christopherwest.com and highly recommend that you check out his video series "Created and Redeemed" or any of his work on theology of the body. He has alot of articles there as well. Christ came to REDEEM our fallen natures. That does not mean to change everything about who we are but to right what is disordered. You need to trust what the Church says and not what the world says on this matter. None of us find complete satisfaction in our relationships. Our relationships are given to us by God to sanctify us and draw us closer to Christ. A homosexual relationship does not do that. It draws you away from the Church and away from Chirst! "seek ye first the kingdom of God"! I have known gay people who have gone straight but that is not to be your goal at this moment. Your goal needs to be a seeking of the kingdom and an understanding of human sexuality so that you know what is right and ordered and then strive toward that. Just because you have feelings and urges does not make it right and ordered. At one point in my life to be honest, I wanted to "love" every woman I saw. i.e. I was consumed by lust. I could never understand how that would ever get to a point where I could manage it. So what you are going through is not unique to those who have gay tendancies, it is just in another form. But by the power of God I am who I am today. Christ redeemed my sexual desire and gave me control over it. Your issue is really no different and I am sure that as a young man in this society the temptation is strong. "Resist the devil and he will flee." You are in my prayers. God bless

Edited April 24, 2009 by thessalonian

[AdAltareDei]

[quote name='AdAltareDei' post='1845754' date='Apr 24 2009, 05:05 AM']hahaha thanks.
But God doesn't turn gay people straight. Thats fundamentalist, evangelical protestant croutons.
But thanks for the reply.
Why are you remaining single for the rest of your life?[/quote]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA
I just noticed someone edited my swear word to "croutons" and burst out laughing.

[thessalonian]

You need to know one other thing. You do not have power over this. God alone does and only in him will you find your way.