cmotherofpirl Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 [quote name='pat22' post='1844398' date='Apr 23 2009, 01:16 PM']my friend's boss committed suicide two days ago. please play for her.[/quote] Absolutely. May the Lord in His mercy hold her in the palm of His hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farglefeezlebut Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 [quote name='CatherineM' post='1843127' date='Apr 22 2009, 03:40 AM']The reason I am passionate about this, is I'm married to a man with a serious mental illness. Over 10% of the people with his illness commit suicide. If he were to, I know that he wouldn't be responsible, and I would like him to have a funeral mass. I'm hoping he would be granted compassion rather than judgment.[/quote] Yes. I went through a period of believing that God wanted me to kill myself. I tried to do so and failed. Was that a mortal sin? Would I have gone to hell if it worked? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaeology cat Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 [quote name='pat22' post='1844398' date='Apr 23 2009, 05:16 PM']my friend's boss committed suicide two days ago. please play for her.[/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pat22 Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 thanks guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 [quote name='pat22' post='1844474' date='Apr 23 2009, 02:32 PM']thanks guys.[/quote] This is what being part of the phamily is all about. Make sure you post it in the prayer room as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pat22 Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissScripture Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 [quote name='Resurrexi' post='1843160' date='Apr 21 2009, 09:59 PM']The canon clearly says unless the suicidal person shows signs of repentance. I guess psychological factors [i]could[/i] be a reason as well, but I have oft seen this abused. It ends up being that everyone who commits suicide is for some reason for another allowed a Catholic funeral. This defeats the purpose of the law, which is to avoid scandal and to deter people from committing suicide in the future.[/quote] If someone is in such a bad situation that they do kill themselves, I doubt that the knowledge that they wouldn't be allowed a Catholic funeral would do much to prevent them from killing themselves. I honestly believe that it would cause far MORE scandal if these people weren't allowed a Catholic funeral, becuase their families and friends would probably view it as a great lack of compassion coming from the Church. Also, since generally suicides are committed while a person is alone, how would anyone know if they did show signs of repentance at the end? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicansoul Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 ...my brother committed suicide, and we buried him quietly, giving him a full Christian burial...but we did not put his obit in the paper, and we didn't tell anybody...we were too heartbroken, and really didn't want to have to receive anyone...we just wanted to take it as a family...with no one else from the outside ...as far as scandal, I remember the priest's words during the homily, on how we cannot judge my brother, because we weren't there in his last breathes, and we don't know what he was thinking or feeling or what was happening to him... My brother was a very good man, a holy man whom I know the beast targeted because my brother did so much for the Church. HE was an outstanding speaker and brought many youth to the Faith. His life has taught me a lesson, that none of us are immune to the tricks of the devil. We need to stay close to God, phamily! We can't allow any leeway for the beast to move in... I truly believe without a doubt that my brother is in Purgatory. All his life he prayed the Holy Rosary everyday, and had a special devotion to Mary. I don't believe for one instant that she wasn't with him "at the hour of his death." My brother died very slowly, very painfully...I know in the time he had dying, he was repenting. I don't think Mary would let him be lost... So, let's not be too harsh on those who commit suicide. We really don't know what their last moments are like... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted April 23, 2009 Author Share Posted April 23, 2009 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1844430' date='Apr 23 2009, 12:36 PM']You are not qualified to know if the person had any signs of repentance, or to judge the state of someone's soul or to know if the canon is abused in any way. So just don't go there.[/quote] You don't have to be a canon lawyer to know that canon law is being abused. It happens all the time in the case of pro-abortion politicians receiving Communion. The Canon states that a grave public sinner should be denied a Christian funeral unless signs of repentance are shown (and it is a custom to permit Christian burial if the person was insane). If no signs of repentance (for example the suicidal person shouting "O God forgive me I shouldn't have done it" while jumping off a tall building) are apparent, then the funeral should be denied, in accordance with the Code of Canon Law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicansoul Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 St. John Vianney gave a Christian burial to a man who had jumped off a bridge. When the widow could not be consoled, St. John whispered in her ear, "He received the grace for a full repentence." The women looked at him very disturbed. St. John explained...."it's a long way down from the bridge to the water..." IF it's good enough for a saint, it shouldnt' be too hard for you to understand that the canon does not prohibit it in cases like my brother, nor in the case of this poor man... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted April 23, 2009 Author Share Posted April 23, 2009 Do you have a source for this story? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicansoul Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 not at the moment. But it's a story that's been told over and over throughout the centuries. I don't doubt it. St. John had the gift of reading souls... I think the Canon has to do with outspoken, very public mortal sinners who never showed one bit of remorse for their actions... in other cases, where it just happens to individuals who never did anything publicly wrong in their lives...where's the scandal in that? Especially if the priests mentions it in his homily that suicide is not right, and yet, we cannot ever really know the heart of the person we are burying... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted April 23, 2009 Author Share Posted April 23, 2009 There are a lot of stories that have been told over and over over the centuries about famous persons that are completely unhistorical... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 There is a reason why Canon 1184 reserves the decision to the Ordinary when there is any doubt. It is because these decisions take prayerful consideration, in a compassionate and non-judgmental way (since judgment of someone's soul is reserved to Christ). Anyone who is incapable of refraining from judging people we do not know, making diagnoses of individuals we have never met, perhaps would benefit from spending some time volunteering at a homeless shelter or mental hospital. That might allow one to develop some empathy and compassion for people whose dark nights of the soul are deeper than we can possibly know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 [quote name='Resurrexi' post='1844788' date='Apr 23 2009, 06:44 PM']You don't have to be a canon lawyer to know that canon law is being abused. It happens all the time in the case of pro-abortion politicians receiving Communion. The Canon states that a grave public sinner should be denied a Christian funeral unless signs of repentance are shown (and it is a custom to permit Christian burial if the person was insane). If no signs of repentance (for example the suicidal person shouting "O God forgive me I shouldn't have done it" while jumping off a tall building) are apparent, then the funeral should be denied, in accordance with the Code of Canon Law.[/quote] We are not discussing politicians, we are discussing poor tormented souls who are in such pain that death is preferable. You haven't been there, you haven't a clue, and I hope you never do get to that point. Again, you are not qualified to decide the state of someones soul or if they repented at their moment of death. You are quite good at spouting the letter of the law, but you have no clue to its meaning. Thank God the church is now more merciful than you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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