Moosey Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 I was reading the thread in the (I think it's the lame board) with listing the things that are "happiness." Now, I've struggled with this. Whenever I get on a topic like this with fellow Catholics, I get all the same stuff: "Happiness is God's love", "happiness is Our Lord's presence in the Eucharist", "happiness is Heaven." Don't get me wrong, I agree whole-heartedly with all of these. But I was always under the impression that those were a given when it came to a human's full capacity for happiness. Now to the point. I'd like to reiterate that I agree with all of the above suggestions when it comes to true, unadulterated happiness. So is it okay to really enjoy things of the earth? Like the smell of a rose, the feeling of true love in a marriage, carrying a child in the womb, having children, the sun rising over a placid lake etc. (I guess you can tell what I take true joy in) Is it wrong for one to find a sense of peace or happiness with these things? I understand we must detach ourselves from this world in order to obtain Heaven, but did God really want us not to enjoy our time here by appreciating nature and the people in it? Just for the record, Im speaking on a very small scale. I understand all of the things I've listed as earthly things are not comparable to those of Heaven and the beatific vision. I just feel like other Catholics believe there is no way we can be at least a little happy or content on earth. Thoughts? ~katy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philothea Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 (I haven't read the lame board post(s) you're referring to.) I'm in agreement with you. I might even go further! It's unCatholic to believe creation is evil and we're not supposed to enjoy the delights of the world. Obviously, in moderation and without attachment, but creation is good. We're supposed to take pleasure in the good things in life, and thank God for them. I also... I don't know, I wonder a little bit about people who might claim happiness in relationship to God or the eucharist or heaven. I suspect either they've worked themselves into a pleasant emotional state, or they're giving the answer they think they ought. Because the things of God are matters of faith, not emotion or feeling. While there might be some happiness involved from time to time, that's not the essence of the earthy experience. Personally I'd say the experience of God is vastly stronger -- both good and bad -- than "happy" could encompass, but I'm a lot older than most people who might say otherwise. For me happiness is more... wine, nice food, music, a video game, a lovely view... etc. Not so profound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissyP89 Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 (edited) To hate this world is the heresy of Gnosticism, I believe... Besides, God created this world, and gave it all of the beauty and splendor that brings us that happiness. Our sinfulness doesn't entirely erase the wonder of life here. He [i]wants[/i] us to enjoy it--that's why He gave us all this! To enjoy, and to praise Him for it. Edited April 18, 2009 by MissyP89 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moosey Posted April 18, 2009 Author Share Posted April 18, 2009 Thank you for your answer! I agree whole-heartedly! The thread I was talking about is [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=92981"]here[/url] if you care to read it. My problem is, I follow the lives of the saints very diligently and they led lives of total detachment from earthly things, almost disliking them. I want to be a saint, but I want to enjoy this life too. Im in a bit of a pickle P.S. Happiness is laughing so hard you can't breath and your eyes are watering. I LOVE THOSE MOMENTS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 [quote name='Moosey' post='1839754' date='Apr 18 2009, 04:25 PM']Thank you for your answer! I agree whole-heartedly! The thread I was talking about is [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=92981"]here[/url] if you care to read it. My problem is, I follow the lives of the saints very diligently and they led lives of total detachment from earthly things, almost disliking them. I want to be a saint, but I want to enjoy this life too. Im in a bit of a pickle P.S. Happiness is laughing so hard you can't breath and your eyes are watering. I LOVE THOSE MOMENTS![/quote] You can be detached from something but still admire a sunset and smell a rose because they are part of Creation. Wherever the Catholic sun doth shine, There's laughter, cheer, and good red wine; At least I have always found it so-- Benedicamos Domino! --Hillaire Belloc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moosey Posted April 18, 2009 Author Share Posted April 18, 2009 Thanks mom I feel better about it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philothea Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 [quote name='Moosey' post='1839754' date='Apr 18 2009, 03:25 PM']My problem is, I follow the lives of the saints very diligently and they led lives of total detachment from earthly things, almost disliking them. I want to be a saint, but I want to enjoy this life too. Im in a bit of a pickle [/quote] Mmmm, pickles.... oh wait. Most biographers of saints are interested in the saintly details, not so much the ordinary ones. It doesn't take any particular sanctity to enjoy a beautiful day. It takes a lot to be completely detached from physical pleasure, so of course the detachment gets mentioned a lot more. But still, saints definitely enjoyed food and drink and friends very much. Here's a notable example, from Butler's Lives of the Saints, on St. Francis of Assisi:[indent] When he knew the end was close at hand, Francis asked that they would send to Rome for the Lady Giacoma di Settesoli, who had often befriended him, and ask her to come, bringing with her candles and a grey gown for his burial, and [b]some of the cake that he liked so well[/b].[/indent] And this is after Francis received the stigmata, so definitely a saint at this point, but he still liked cake! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Asik Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Moosey' post='1839754' date='Apr 18 2009, 04:25 PM']Thank you for your answer! I agree whole-heartedly! The thread I was talking about is [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=92981"]here[/url] if you care to read it. My problem is, I follow the lives of the saints very diligently and they led lives of total detachment from earthly things, almost disliking them. I want to be a saint, but I want to enjoy this life too. Im in a bit of a pickle P.S. Happiness is laughing so hard you can't breath and your eyes are watering. I LOVE THOSE MOMENTS![/quote]How I understand it is that Saints take immense joy in serving God, and that this joy is so great as to overwhelm all other joys, including all "earthly pleasures". If any have expressed a despise of material things, it must be understood in a positive, relative way: not that material things are worthelss, but that serving God is so great that anything else is worthless in comparison. I guess you're not a Saint and neither am I. However, when you look at that magnificent sunset, you may think God really wants you to be looking at that sunset and enjoying His creation, and that you're, in effect, doing His will! And then you have the best of both worlds. Edited April 18, 2009 by Dr_Asik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kafka Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 (edited) the Nature of God is pure goodness. Creation is a reflection or I would call it a mediation of God's Nature. So to love all that is good in creation in accord with grace is to implicitly love God. And the concomitant joy which is experienced in loving all the good things God has created such as your spouse, the sunset, a rose is a foretaste of the joy of Heaven when we will experience God in immediate vision. Edited April 19, 2009 by kafka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 [quote name='Dr_Asik' post='1839786' date='Apr 18 2009, 05:29 PM']However, when you look at that magnificent sunset, you may think God really wants you to be looking at that sunset and enjoying His creation, and that you're, in effect, doing His will! And then you have the best of both worlds.[/quote] I always try to see every sunrise and sunset I can, its a daily present from God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatcatholic Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 [quote name='MissyP89' post='1839752' date='Apr 18 2009, 03:22 PM']To hate this world is the heresy of Gnosticism, I believe...[/quote] See also: Manichaeism [url="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09591a.htm"]http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09591a.htm[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StColette Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 [quote name='MissyP89' post='1839752' date='Apr 18 2009, 03:22 PM']To hate this world is the heresy of Gnosticism, I believe...[/quote] Zoroastrianism is almost the opposite. They will not bury their dead because they believe the body is evil and thus they don't want to pollute the Earth with evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 Happiness is fleeting, while beatitude is everlasting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatcatholic Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 [quote name='Apotheoun' post='1841418' date='Apr 20 2009, 01:37 PM']Happiness is fleeting, while beatitude is everlasting.[/quote] Can you explain the difference between the two? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 (edited) The two words are used differently and convey a different sense of "well being." One who experiences beatitude has been sanctified, consecrated, set aside from that which is common, and has been made truly blessed. One who is happy experiences an emotional state of joy due to good fortune, and -- like all emotional states -- the feeling of happiness is ephemeral. Edited April 21, 2009 by Apotheoun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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