Should Men And Women Cover Their Heads

[Moosey]

Oh you'd be surprised how excited some men get when they see the tip of a woman's nose sticking out of her burka.

Edited April 18, 2009 by Moosey

[princessgianna]

It's scandal!!!

[Resurrexi]

I don't have a problem with priests wearing birettas or bishops, miters in church...

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Resurrexi' post='1839441' date='Apr 18 2009, 12:52 AM']I don't have a problem with priests wearing birettas or bishops, miters in church...[/quote]
They take them off though, at certain points. I assume there's meaning behind those particular places.

[Resurrexi]

Yes, they do. I know that bishops certainly do during the Canon/Eucharistic Prayer/Anaphora, but I'm not sure at hat other points. Priests only wear the biretta during the entrance, exit, and homily, I believe.

Edited April 18, 2009 by Resurrexi

[TotusTuusMaria]

I polled:

Yes, it is a matter of sin.

No, they should not be forced and compelled.

Simply because I dislike the way it was worded: "forced"... I did think about wanting to change it though to "Yes they should be force and compelled" ... I think the churches should say and do something about it since I suppose my position is that it is a matter of sin. I am not going to force anyone to do it. Not my place.

And I also think your original picture is ridiculous, Mr. CatholicCat No one has said women's faces should be covered.

Edited April 18, 2009 by TotusTuusMaria

[Cam42]

A priest is to wear the biretta at the entrance procession and recession, with certain exceptions. He is to remove it any time that he stands or kneels. He is to wear it any time that he sits. He is to tip remove his biretta at the names of Jesus and Mary.

A bishop is to wear a mitre at the entrace procession and recession, with certain exceptions. He is to have it removed most times when he stands with the exeption of the solemn blessing and if he stands to preach (although properly speaking, he should sit to preach). He should wear the mitre any time that he sits. He does not remove it at the names of Jesus and Mary.

The rules for the Mitre are drastically simplified in the OF, as opposed to the EF.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Cam42' post='1840108' date='Apr 18 2009, 11:25 PM']The rules for the Mitre are drastically simplified in the OF, as opposed to the EF.[/quote]

Would you care to explain this further?

[virginiancatholic]

Gentlemen ought to remove their hats at the Eucharistic Feast, if not whenever they enter a church, for the simple reason of respect and deference for One who is greater if nothing else. As a father said to his son in a great American Film "A man who eats with his hat on is going nowhere in a hurry."

Also, just an aside, ladies cover their heads in the Catholic Church for different reasons than Muslims...most of all because it is an act of respect and submission to God. Christians see (or at least ought to see) women as the crown of creation made in the image and likeness of God, demanding great respect for the simple fact that they bear new life. Muslims cover up because woman is a temptress and man cannot control his thoughts at all. Also, it was culturally appropriate (back to Western here) until about 50 years ago when everyone started going bareheaded. Watch the old movies...everyone's got a hat. I wear a veil and see absolutely nothing wrong with others not doing so.

Your poll is rather silly, by the way. No point.

I think there should be an emoticon with a veil

[Hilde]

So what are you all's opinion on 1 Corinthans 11:15 then?

And I don't think it should be forced, but it's a nice gesture. i don't see many women do it though.I don't find it oppressive because it doesn't have anything to do with men.(that are not divine)

[Cam42]

[quote name='Resurrexi' post='1840112' date='Apr 18 2009, 10:35 PM']Would you care to explain this further?[/quote]

Depending on what the feast is for the celebration of the Pontifical Mass, the bishop may use two mitres, the jewelled mitre and the simple mitre. There are rules that pertain to the use of both.

There are also times when a bishop will only wear a damask (white) mitre. The rules vary according to the role that he plays or the type of Mass celebrated.

In the extraordinary form, it is rare to see a full pontifical Mass from the throne as it is extremely complex and involved. Most likely one would see a bishop celebrate from the faldstool, which requires a different set of rules for the use of the mitre.

I would suggest that if you are interested in learning about the various uses of the bishop's mitre, get a copy of the old pontificale and read up. Granted, it is most likely in Latin, but it is pretty elementary Latin.

[RezaMikhaeil]

In regards to the primary question, I'm going to answer it from an Eastern perspective, using/referencing Early Church Father's Writings:

Historically, a Christian woman's headcovering was like a Muslim woman's Hijab, not necessarily with a face veil known to Muslims as a Niqaab. This can be found amongst the earliest pictures of Christian women, particularly Orthodox Paintings, etc.

[img]http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo149/StaticIdentification/NesterovMV_NaRusi206x483GTG.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo149/StaticIdentification/Nesterov_SaintRussia.jpg[/img]

St. John Chyrsostom, in a sermon at the Feast of the Ascension, references headcoverings and angels. He wrote that women should veil themselves because of the angels, and that not covering of the head was no minor sin but a deliberate sin. He said that there are angels throughout the world, but how much more in Church, so why should women not follow the scriptures and veil because of the angels.

[quote]St. John Chrysostom - "The angels are present here open the eyes of faith and look upon this sight. For if the very air is filled with angels, how much more so the Church! ...Hear the Apostle teaching this, when he bids the women to cover their heads with a veil because of the presence of the angels."

St. Cyril of Alexandria - The angels find it extremely hard to bear if this law [that women cover their heads] is disregarded."

St. Clement of Alexandria - "And she will never fall, who puts before her eyes modesty, and her shawl.. For this is the wish of the Word, since it is becoming for her to pray veiled."

St. Hippolytus of Rome - "Moreover, let all the women have their heads veiled with a scarf"

St. Augustine - "It is not becoming even in married women to uncover their hair, since the apostle commands the women to keep their heads covered.. For she is instructed for this very reason to cover her head, which he is forbidden to do because he is the image of God."[/quote]

Tertullian, to which coined the term "trinity", thou not cannonized as a Saint due to choices at the end of his life, wrote, while part of the church a book titled, "The Veiling of the Virgins" in which he instructed all women to veil their heads.

There is so much more evidence of this practice that it's in many women's minds, irrefutable.


[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1838927' date='Apr 17 2009, 03:21 PM']The Christian woman's head covering has always been more like a scarf, and rarely if ever covered the face. It normally covered only the hair and crown of the head.[/quote]

Read St. Clement of Alexandria's famed writings, that have collectively come to be known as "the triology", in which he writes that women, "...are to be entirely covered, unless she happens to be at home...nor will she invite another to fall into sin by uncovering her face" [translation].

Does that not resemble the practice that many Muslims adhere to? Reciently a Russian Orthodox Bishop made these comments that caused much contraversy:

[quote]Archbishop Vikenty of Yekaterinburg and Yerkhoturye - the reluctance of the majority of Orthodox women to wear head coverings in public is a departure from the Will of God. I cannot understand this. Why, Muslim women are not ashamed of doing this, even the little girls and teenagers. They shall tell you that they are always in Allah’s presence, and they do not wish to provoke Allah’s anger. We should have this same salutary fear of God in our hearts”.

…for a woman to cover her head is “a law of God. The Lord Himself commanded that women should cover their heads in public. If a woman does not wish to do this because the majority does not do so, because she does not wish to ‘stick out like a sore thumb’, she is greatly mistaken. You should not look at what others are doing; you should attend to what you are doing yourself”.

“If everybody became filled with a healthy fear of God and a desire to carry out His Will, then, without a word, all our women would go in public with their heads covered. I say that there is nothing dishonorable or slighting to women in this”.


“The Lord gives us beauty and we go and disfigure it, for what reason, I don’t know. This is fraudulent and it is a total misunderstanding of what true beauty is. Look how lovely unadorned simplicity is! Look at our sweet little girls. Why do you put makeup on them when they are already as beautiful as angels? Look at how we spoil the looks of people by using cosmetics!”[/quote]


As an Orthodox, I don't see much grounds, historically, scripturally and traditionally to refute headcoverings of women, the only discussion seems to be as to weather a woman should cover the face [which I believe St. Clement was referencing his own interpretation and culture, more then a direct interpretation of the scriptures] and weather she should cover her head outside of church also [which I believe most of the evidience points to, "yes"].


In regards to the hijab being "oppressive", I'd like to add that I have several sisters that are Muslims and they wear the hijab. They wear the hijab but their also feminists, the hijab in their opinions allows them to not be judged according to their bodies. Its not that their ugly, one of them was a professional swimmer for a while, but she decided to empower herself. Sure there are abuses of the hijab, but there have also been abuses of rules, practices, etc within Christianity. It all depends on the individuals that are practicing it. If you watch the CBC TV Series, "Little Mosque on the Prairie", Rayyan is a charector that is a Muslim feminist that wears the hijab for that purpose. It was written by Zarqa Nawaz, whom herself wears the hijab and is a Muslim Feminist. She's from Pakistan, where she admits that women aren't always treated the best, but still doesn't blame the Hijab for it, nor the Qur'an and the rules of women's dress within her religion, but rather those that do the oppressing.

It's important to put everything into perspective and gain full understanding before jumping to conclusions and believing everything that is written in the media.

Reza

Edited May 12, 2009 by RezaLemmyng

[RezaMikhaeil]

[kavalamyself]

I believe special/sacred clothing is not only appropriate but necessary to delve deeply into quality prayer time with the Lord.

[ariaane]

I personally do not support forcing a woman, or man to cover their heads.

Surely, it is not mandatory in the Church or a “sin”... (can someone clarify whether it has been dogmatically claimed to be sinful, or the Church’s current position on it)

I’ve never covered my head before in mass, nor am I likely to.

I do find the topic of women covering their hair to be [b]of great interest to men[/b]. Why is that? Are they somehow aroused by the sight of women’s hair in mass?.. Because it seems that Muslim men are aroused by sight of Muslim women’s hair...

PS- Some of the “mantilla’s” women wear during mass look [i]beyond[/i] ridiculous. Why not just wear a simple veil over your head (like the image in Princess Giana’s avatar) instead of looking as if you just stepped fresh out of a scene from the Little House on the Prairie?