I Am A Right-wing Extremist!

[Socrates]

[quote name='Winchester' post='1842162' date='Apr 20 2009, 11:04 PM']The major government-sponsored extermination campaigns in recent history have always from from the left wing because the citizen, to the left wing mindset, is property of the state.[/quote]
“I want everyone to keep what he has earned [b]subject to the principle that the good of the community takes priority over that of the individual. But the State should retain control; every owner should feel himself to be an agent of the State… The Third Reich will always retain the right to control property owners.[/b]” ~ Hitler in a 1931 interview

[ardillacid]

Sounds like the conservative platform to me!!!

[Winchester]

Conservative or right wing?

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1842129' date='Apr 20 2009, 11:45 PM']That was intended as sarcastic humor, though perhaps it was lost on you.[/quote]

I guess it was lost on me... I don't know what to take seriously and what is a joke when it all looks the same.

[quote name='Socrates' post='1842129' date='Apr 20 2009, 11:45 PM']You have failed to respond to the rest of what myself, WillT and others have said concerning the report, which your first remarks indicate you have made no effort to read beyond half of one sentence.[/quote]

That pro-lifers as a group as not as dangerous as Isamlic terrorists? That's kinda obvious. Muslims as a group are not as dangerous as right-wing extremists or the KKK or all the other nutjobs out there. Terrorists and extremists of any variety are dangerous. I heard second-hand accounts of people wanting to blow up mosques after 9/11. Fortunately nothing came to pass, but hey, crazy is equal opportunity.

[quote name='Socrates' post='1842129' date='Apr 20 2009, 11:45 PM']And if this whole topic has no interest to you, why post in this thread?[/quote]

Nothing better to do

[Winchester]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1842385' date='Apr 21 2009, 10:00 AM']Muslims as a group are not as dangerous as right-wing extremists or the KKK or all the other nutjobs out there. Terrorists and extremists of any variety are dangerous.[/quote]
How do you define extremists? That's a bizarre statement. It disregards effectiveness and the philosophy of differing extremist groups. As a rule, the Provos used economic terrorism or killed military or paramilitary targets. They didn't bomb school children. That's obviously less dangerous than Al Qaeda.

[quote]I heard second-hand accounts of people wanting to blow up mosques after 9/11. Fortunately nothing came to pass, but hey, crazy is equal opportunity.[/quote]From your father's brother's sister's cousin's former roommate? Why didn't it happen? Even cowardice due to societal pressure makes the extremist who doesn't act on his opinions less dangerous than the extremist who does. Your position appears to be the typical egalitarian claptrap designed not to expose truth, but to keep from offending people.

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1842098' date='Apr 20 2009, 08:29 PM']Yeah, because we all know conservatism is [i]really[/i] all about genocide and fascism, and national socialism.


Yeah, conservative in their beliefs about [i]everything[/i], like their belief in socialism, wanting government control of private business and the economy and everything else, restricting the rights of citizens to bear arms, mandatory government "service" for the youth, and and state control over and persecution of the Church. . . .

[b]“We are socialists, we are enemies of today’s capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance.” ~ Adolf Hitler, 1927.[/b]

[b]"Basically National Socialism and Marxism are the same." ~ Hitler, 1941[/b]

Yeah, sounds like conservatism to me. . .

As for "gays," prominent Nazi leaders like SA leader Ernst Rohm were proudly homosexual. It was only after their homosexuality became a liability that Hitler became officially opposed to homosexuality.

"Fidei," please kindly take your ignorant off-topic flaming elsewhere. Thank you.[/quote]
It wasn't off topic and it wasn't flaming.

Just because you talk big doesn't make you any better than anyone else. Keep your condescending comments to yourself.

[Winchester]

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1842394' date='Apr 21 2009, 10:27 AM']It wasn't off topic and it wasn't flaming.

Just because you talk big doesn't make you any better than anyone else. Keep your condescending comments to yourself.[/quote]
So you don't have a rebuttal.

Sorry, Soc, I know that was your line. But it's such a good line.

[T-Bone _]

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1842394' date='Apr 21 2009, 08:27 AM']It wasn't off topic and it wasn't flaming.

Just because you talk big doesn't make you any better than anyone else. Keep your condescending comments to yourself.[/quote]

Kettle, meet pot...

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='Winchester' post='1842427' date='Apr 21 2009, 09:29 AM']So you don't have a rebuttal.

Sorry, Soc, I know that was your line. But it's such a good line.[/quote]
Simply saying that they called themselves a socialist party doesn't make them liberal socialists. It's not the name that determines the ideals. Hitler wasn't a true socialist and was against most socialist ideas. Private business owners owned the means of production and oversaw the production of goods in Nazi Germany. Hitler was staunchly against the marxist ideas of how the economy should be run. He wasn't a socialist by any stretch of the mind.

Second, fascism is a far right ideology. Placing the power of the state into the hands of one man is further up on the list of conservative than monarchy.

Third, Hitler and Nazism in general were against liberal ideas like individualism, secularism, and the like.

The thing is, in terms of the classic right vs. left, Hitler was much further right than he was left.

[Winchester]

So it's your argument that all leftists must sympathize with communism or socialism?

What's your definition of leftism?

[Socrates]

[quote name='Winchester' post='1842427' date='Apr 21 2009, 11:29 AM']So you don't have a rebuttal.

Sorry, Soc, I know that was your line. But it's such a good line.[/quote]
No worries.

Saved me a couple seconds of typing time.

[Socrates]

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1842823' date='Apr 21 2009, 06:11 PM']Simply saying that they called themselves a socialist party doesn't make them liberal socialists. It's not the name that determines the ideals. Hitler wasn't a true socialist and was against most socialist ideas. Private business owners owned the means of production and oversaw the production of goods in Nazi Germany. Hitler was staunchly against the marxist ideas of how the economy should be run. He wasn't a socialist by any stretch of the mind.

Second, fascism is a far right ideology. Placing the power of the state into the hands of one man is further up on the list of conservative than monarchy.

Third, Hitler and Nazism in general were against liberal ideas like individualism, secularism, and the like.

The thing is, in terms of the classic right vs. left, Hitler was much further right than he was left.[/quote]
So are you claiming conservatives can be socialist?

And not only did the National Socialists (Nazis) call themselves socialists, but they were in fact socialists, albeit not as radical in their socialism as the Communists.
While they didn't absolutely abolish private property like the Soviets, they did in fact "nationalize" all business and enterprise, and put all private property under the direct power and control of the government (See my previous 1931 quote from Hitler, which was taken from a private interview with a prominent German businessman - so he was hardly pandering to a socialist audience in that case.)
The truth is that the National Socialists vastly increased central government control over business and banking, putting everything directly under the power of the central government.
Yes, that's a form of socialism.
If the Nazis were truly the polar opposite of the Communists, as you liberals love to claim, they would have been libertarian laissez faire capitalists, in favor of freeing the market from government control and interference. However, they did quite the opposite.
Again, they don't have much in common with conservatives, who favor free markets and less centralized government power.
Do really think Hitler's big-government consolidation of government control over everything has more in common with today's conservatives, or liberals?

And let's forget for a moment the labels "far-right" and "far-left" (which mean different things in different times and places). After all, didn't you just say "It's not the name that determines the ideals"?
You seem to accept at face value the idea that Nazism and Communism were polar opposites. However, the truth is they were much more similar to one another in practice than opposites. Both were godless statist totalitarian dictatorships, which placed absolute power in the hands of the central government, and which would brutally suppress whatever stood against them. Study some history, and this will be very apparent.
The fact that they were enemies at war with one another does not mean they represented truly opposite ideologies - just that they both stood in the way of each other's struggle for absolute power and world domination.

As for the Nazis opposing "liberal ideas like individualism, secularism, and the like," the Left-wing Communists were even more collectivist and against individualism than the Nazis. Does the fact that the leftist Communists were strongly anti-individualistic make individualism a "conservative idea," or does it mean the Communists were actually conservatives too? Sorry, but if you're going to play that game, you can't play it both ways.
If Nazis were conservative, does that mean Communists are liberal?

And far from being the good, devout Catholic Christian atheistic liberals try to make him to be, the fact is that Hitler (like the Communists) was a brutal persecutor of the Church, and was responsible for the murder of many Catholic clergy, especially in Poland and Czech territorities. This is well-documented fact. And the Nazis were not truly Christian, but neo-pagans opposed to traditional Christianity. They tried to bring the Church in Germany completely under government control, and brutally persecuted and murdered any religious people that opposed him.
The garbage about the Nazis being devout Catholics in service to the Church is a blatant anti-Catholic lie. If the Nazis were such good Catholics/Christians, why did they so brutally oppress their own kind?

And let's not forget, the Nazis pioneered the "progressive" cause of human euthanasia and "mercy killing," as well as gun control. (Heck, Hitler was even a vegetarian!)

Both Nazism and Communism were forms of revolutionary collectivist statist totalitarianism, and both were radically opposed to everything a true conservatism stands for (limited, government, local autonomy, free markets, freedom of religious practice, etc.)

In practice, Nazism has far more in common with Communism and the socialist Left than it does with conservatism.

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='Winchester' post='1842389' date='Apr 21 2009, 11:12 AM']How do you define extremists? That's a bizarre statement. It disregards effectiveness and the philosophy of differing extremist groups. As a rule, the Provos used economic terrorism or killed military or paramilitary targets. They didn't bomb school children. That's obviously less dangerous than Al Qaeda.[/quote]

The only point is that people are out there who will kill for any reason, even "defense" of the right to life. It's happened before. It could happen again. I think some of these pro-life organizations need something to report to keep a subscriber base, and this White House report is the best they have for this month. Next month it'll be something else... and six months from now nobody will remember a thing about some obscure report.

[quote name='Winchester' post='1842389' date='Apr 21 2009, 11:12 AM']From your father's brother's sister's cousin's former roommate? Why didn't it happen? Even cowardice due to societal pressure makes the extremist who doesn't act on his opinions less dangerous than the extremist who does. Your position appears to be the typical egalitarian claptrap designed not to expose truth, but to keep from offending people.[/quote]

One of my dad's friends at work. I reckon he was just full of it, but the point is where the are ten people who joke or act like they will do something, there's one guy who crosses the line and actually does it. So is the White House report unfounded on actual evidence? I don't think so. There are racists who would kill for a chance at Obama... we all know that. And there are conservatives of every stripe who will kill to defend their positions, regardless of how illogical it may be. These kinds of people don't operate on logic.

Therefore, I've come to my own conclusion and it's settled.

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1843195' date='Apr 21 2009, 08:44 PM']So are you claiming conservatives can be socialist?

And not only did the National Socialists (Nazis) call themselves socialists, but they were in fact socialists, albeit not as radical in their socialism as the Communists.
While they didn't absolutely abolish private property like the Soviets, they did in fact "nationalize" all business and enterprise, and put all private property under the direct power and control of the government (See my previous 1931 quote from Hitler, which was taken from a private interview with a prominent German businessman - so he was hardly pandering to a socialist audience in that case.)
The truth is that the National Socialists vastly increased central government control over business and banking, putting everything directly under the power of the central government.
Yes, that's a form of socialism.
If the Nazis were truly the polar opposite of the Communists, as you liberals love to claim, they would have been libertarian laissez faire capitalists, in favor of freeing the market from government control and interference. However, they did quite the opposite.
Again, they don't have much in common with conservatives, who favor free markets and less centralized government power.
Do really think Hitler's big-government consolidation of government control over everything has more in common with today's conservatives, or liberals?

And let's forget for a moment the labels "far-right" and "far-left" (which mean different things in different times and places). After all, didn't you just say "It's not the name that determines the ideals"?
You seem to accept at face value the idea that Nazism and Communism were polar opposites. However, the truth is they were much more similar to one another in practice than opposites. Both were godless statist totalitarian dictatorships, which placed absolute power in the hands of the central government, and which would brutally suppress whatever stood against them. Study some history, and this will be very apparent.
The fact that they were enemies at war with one another does not mean they represented truly opposite ideologies - just that they both stood in the way of each other's struggle for absolute power and world domination.

As for the Nazis opposing "liberal ideas like individualism, secularism, and the like," the Left-wing Communists were even more collectivist and against individualism than the Nazis. Does the fact that the leftist Communists were strongly anti-individualistic make individualism a "conservative idea," or does it mean the Communists were actually conservatives too? Sorry, but if you're going to play that game, you can't play it both ways.
If Nazis were conservative, does that mean Communists are liberal?

And far from being the good, devout Catholic Christian atheistic liberals try to make him to be, the fact is that Hitler (like the Communists) was a brutal persecutor of the Church, and was responsible for the murder of many Catholic clergy, especially in Poland and Czech territorities. This is well-documented fact. And the Nazis were not truly Christian, but neo-pagans opposed to traditional Christianity. They tried to bring the Church in Germany completely under government control, and brutally persecuted and murdered any religious people that opposed him.
The garbage about the Nazis being devout Catholics in service to the Church is a blatant anti-Catholic lie. If the Nazis were such good Catholics/Christians, why did they so brutally oppress their own kind?

And let's not forget, the Nazis pioneered the "progressive" cause of human euthanasia and "mercy killing," as well as gun control. (Heck, Hitler was even a vegetarian!)

Both Nazism and Communism were forms of revolutionary collectivist statist totalitarianism, and both were radically opposed to everything a true conservatism stands for (limited, government, local autonomy, free markets, freedom of religious practice, etc.)

In practice, Nazism has far more in common with Communism and the socialist Left than it does with conservatism.[/quote]
I'm going to leave it at that. I'm not debating because I find it offensive that you're calling me a liberal and saying that the nazis were just like liberals. I'm debating because I think it's historically inaccurate to say that the nazis were like the current day liberals.

This debate won't go anywhere, anyway. You're just going to keep calling me names and insinuating that I'm of lesser intelligence for thinking one way or another, so it's not worth it.

You win.

[dominicansoul]

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1843420' date='Apr 22 2009, 09:00 AM']I'm going to leave it at that. I'm not debating because I find it offensive that you're calling me a liberal and saying that the nazis were just like liberals. I'm debating because I think it's historically inaccurate to say that the nazis were like the current day liberals.

This debate won't go anywhere, anyway. You're just going to keep calling me names and insinuating that I'm of lesser intelligence for thinking one way or another, so it's not worth it.

You win.[/quote]
[size=3][font="Book Antiqua"]the nazis are like the current day liberals in that they both do not have nor believe(d) in the dignity of human life in any stage; and use human beings for experimentation regardless of the lives that are lost...[/font][/size]