Could A Pope Become An Antichrist ?

[Groo the Wanderer]

[quote name='Delivery Boy' post='1837084' date='Apr 16 2009, 03:08 AM']Im confused and probally being attacked by satan but I dont know.[/quote]


Yes to both. I do know.


I have been through what you are going through and I had my faith shaken. I started to doubt the Church and its truth. I can only recommend this:

1. stop going to those sites. Satan is the Father of Lies. He will tell you 99% truth to grab your attention and gain your trust , then kill your soul with the other 1%.
2. go spend time with Jesus. find a chapel and just be with Him. sit. kneel. lie down. whatever. Just be with Him. ask for peace. ask for truth. then shush and listen.
3. read John 6 over and over and over. Lectio Divina would be good for that section

[CatherineM]

DB-If you want to study Sacred Scripture, don't start in Revelation, start with the Gospels. Get to know who Jesus is, what he teaches, and what he expects of us, as a good grounding before you delve into areas of the bible that are filled with allegory and imagery that can be very scary and confusing.

Don't take your theology from the Internet from websites that you don't know who is behind them, or what they are trying to accomplish. Pick up books like the Catechism if you want to know what we believe. John Paul told us to Be Not Afraid. Jesus told us in the Gospel that we can't know the time of the second coming. All you can do is live as good a life as is possible, frequently take the sacraments for the strength they give us, and then you don't have to fear death, the end of the world, or the second coming.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Delivery Boy' post='1836747' date='Apr 15 2009, 10:03 PM']Socrates Godbless Brother.

I do indeed believe in the catholic church because it can trace itself back unlike any other church. My " problem " now is I am becoming aware of the Orthadox Church and am wondring why they do not submit to the popes authority ? Also websites like the one where I took the quotes from don't help either although I was not trying to attack with them but rather start discussion. I dont even know who Jack Chick is although the quotes sound horrible but i'm glad you reply that they are bullcrap and that we as catholics don't believe them.

As I move on with my faith I want to have full confidence that the pope is put there by God and that he could play no role in the upcoming spirtual deception that is going to happen. It troubles me when I hear catholics say that there will be no antichrist before the return of Christ. It troubles me when I watch web of fatih (which I love) and here one of the fathers say we do not believe in the antichrist or a 1 world setup were people are forced to submit or not be able to buy or sell.

This leads me to wonder if it were possible somehow a pope could work with the antichrist to usher in the mark of the beast. I got to much time on my hands I know but when the Orthadox Church can trace themselves back to Christ also and they do not accept the popes authority it makes me wonder why ? Do they believe in the very end the antichrist will work with the pope somehow ?

When I hear that the pope can never error and we have to listen to everything he says even if it were wrong I dont understand this. Make it clear I am not attacking the pope or past popes. I am simply just posing the question if it could be possible the pope could become an antichrist while the Orthadox would still hold true to the quote " the gates of hell will not prevail" since they do not submit to the popes authority ?

Godbless,

Josh[/quote]
The anti-Catholic website you were quoting is a lot of lying horse dung. Go to Phatmass's own [url="http://www.phatmass.com/directory/index.php"]Catholic Defense Directory[/url] for some good refutations of that sort of c[font="Arial"]ra[/font]p.

If you indeed believe that the Church traces back to Peter being the Keys of the Kingdom by Jesus Christ, then you should trust that Jesus was serious about "the gates of hell shall not prevail."
Jesus Christ doesn't lie to us.

Christ would never allow His own Church to be led by Satan.

And the Church does indeed teach that there will be an anti-Christ. Any "Catholic" who says otherwise doesn't agree with the Church's own teaching.


Here's a [url="http://www.catholic.com/library/church_papacy.asp"]link to some good articles regarding the Papacy[/url] - including many with quotes from the early Church Fathers.

Here's a good article which deals with Eastern Orthodox objections to Papal authority: [url="http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/1996/9610eaw.asp"]PETER AND THE ORTHODOX: A REPRISE[/url]
Here's another: [url="http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2005/0504bt.asp"]Why I Am Not Eastern Orthodox[/url]

[Guest]

Thanks Socrates
I'll be reading this the next few days.

[Guest]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1837472' date='Apr 16 2009, 04:12 PM']All you can do is live as good a life as is possible, frequently take the sacraments for the strength they give us, and then you don't have to fear death, the end of the world, or the second coming.[/quote]

Best advice I'm going to hear.
And since the true pope wont usher in the antichrist and the mark of the beast (antipope might) I can trust on the true pope and the church to warn of the times.

Edited April 17, 2009 by Guest

[Guest]

[quote name='Groo the Wanderer' post='1837456' date='Apr 16 2009, 02:49 PM']Yes to both. I do know.


I have been through what you are going through and I had my faith shaken. I started to doubt the Church and its truth. I can only recommend this:

1. stop going to those sites. Satan is the Father of Lies. He will tell you 99% truth to grab your attention and gain your trust , then kill your soul with the other 1%.
2. go spend time with Jesus. find a chapel and just be with Him. sit. kneel. lie down. whatever. Just be with Him. ask for peace. ask for truth. then shush and listen.
3. read John 6 over and over and over. Lectio Divina would be good for that section


[/quote]


Thank you pham
Godbless

[Selah]

I'll say a prayer for you, DB. I can see you are truley searching. We're here to help. Keep asking questions, and pray for guidance. God will help you, and so will we!

[abercius24]

[quote name='Delivery Boy' post='1838333' date='Apr 17 2009, 07:30 AM']Best advice I'm going to hear.
And since the true pope wont usher in the antichrist and the mark of the beast (antipope might) I can trust on the true pope and the church to warn of the times.[/quote]

The Pope is warning us that we are on the cusp of an apocalyptic event (likely not THE end, but AN end of things as they are):

[quote name='Homily of His Holiness Benedict XVI - October 2, 2005 -- Opening Mass of the 11th Ordinary General Assembly of the Synod of Bishops']Thus, we reach a third element of today's readings. In the Old and New Testaments, the Lord proclaims judgment on the unfaithful vineyard. The judgment that Isaiah foresaw is brought about in the great wars and exiles for which the Assyrians and Babylonians were responsible. The judgment announced by the Lord Jesus refers above all to the destruction of Jerusalem in the year 70. Yet the threat of judgment also concerns us, the Church in Europe, Europe and the West in general. With this Gospel, the Lord is also crying out to our ears the words that in the Book of Revelation he addresses to the Church of Ephesus: "If you do not repent I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place" (2: 5). Light can also be taken away from us and we do well to let this warning ring out with its full seriousness in our hearts, while crying to the Lord: "Help us to repent! Give all of us the grace of true renewal! Do not allow your light in our midst to blow out! Strengthen our faith, our hope and our love, so that we can bear good fruit!".[/quote] -- [url="http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/homilies/2005/documents/hf_ben-xvi_hom_20051002_opening-synod-bishops_en.html"]Opening of the 11th Ordinary General Assembly of the Synod of Bishops - Homily (vatican.va website)[/url]

It is likely that similar warnings will be issued by the Pope and the Bishops when THE FINAL END comes.

Edited April 18, 2009 by abercius24

[Guest]

What if the Pope started teaching stuff that the faithfull didnt agree with ? What if the Eastern Orthadox Church took a stand against it ? Would one have to decide if they wanted to submit blind authority to the pope or leave the roman catholic church and become Eastern Orthadox ? Would this then make them a heretic punishable by death if they did leave and become Eastern Orthadox ?

Edited April 19, 2009 by Guest

[Nihil Obstat]

*shrugs*
What if every ordained man in the world were simultaneously assasinated?

It seems counter productive to be worrying about.

[Guest]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1840141' date='Apr 19 2009, 12:28 AM']*shrugs*
What if every ordained man in the world were simultaneously assasinated?

It seems counter productive to be worrying about.[/quote]


How so is it conunter producitve if indeed the Easter Orthadox Church is correct with what they are saying ?

There are some very troubling things Im learning about the pope and his office and his infallibility . I think to put blind compelte obdience in something is foolish especially if the holy spirit is speaking and showing me things that question the subject at hand.

Edited April 19, 2009 by Guest

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Delivery Boy' post='1840142' date='Apr 18 2009, 11:31 PM']How so is it conunter producitve if indeed the Easter Orthadox Church is correct with what they are saying ?

There are some very troubling things Im learning about the pope and his office and his infallibility . I think to put blind compelte obdience in something is foolish especially if the holy spirit is speaking and showing me things that question the subject at hand.[/quote]
You should talk to Apotheoun about why he's Eastern Catholic and not Eastern Orthodox.

[Guest]

And what about my question, would that make me a heretic punishable by death if I would leave the roman catholic church to become Eastern Orthadox and not submit to the popes authority ?

[goldenchild17]

DB, it seems like you've started a few interesting threads the last couple of days. Anyways, I do believe a pope can stop being Catholic and become a heretic and this would pose no problem to the Catholic Faith and still would not affect the gates of hell etc etc.

Could a pope become the antichrist? I think it's surely possible without affecting the truth of Catholicism, but on a personal basis I think the various reputable prophecies lead to the anti-christ not probably being a pope but someone else.

anyways, you can email me if you want to talk some more about this. These types of threads here can be a bit restrictive due to a reasonable concern for protecting the faithful from scandal, so some of the more authoritative texts and scholars on the subject have to be discussed elsewhere.

fryc86ATyahooDOTcom

Edited April 19, 2009 by goldenchild17

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='Delivery Boy' post='1840149' date='Apr 18 2009, 11:39 PM']And what about my question, would that make me a heretic punishable by death if I would leave the roman catholic church to become Eastern Orthadox and not submit to the popes authority ?[/quote]

Yes we need to submit to all of any lawful Pope's true authority, and not doing so puts you outside the true Church.