Guest Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 [quote name='Delivery Boy' post='1836708' date='Apr 15 2009, 08:25 PM']"Even if the Pope were Satan incarnate, we ought not to raise up our heads against him, but calmly lie down to rest on his bosom. He who rebels against our Father is condemned to death, for that which we do to him we do to Christ: we honor Christ if we honor the Pope; we dishonor Christ if we dishonor the Pope. I know very well that many defend themselves by boasting: "They are so corrupt, and work all manner of evil!" But God has commanded that, even if the priests, the pastors, and Christ-on-earth were incarnate devils, we be obedient and subject to them, not for their sakes, but for the sake of God, and out of obedience to Him." St. Catherine of Siena, SCS, p. 201-202, p. 222, (quoted in Apostolic Digest, by Michael Malone, Book 5: "The Book of Obedience", Chapter 1: "There is No Salvation Without Personal Submission to the Pope").[/quote] this is not true right ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesus_lol Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 well, when it comes down to it, the Pope is a human, thought to be the best representative of the catholic church by another group of humans. the whole appointed by God really has about as much behind it as when the medevial kings and pharoahs said it. so it is quite possible that an appointed Pope could be a bad man, or become one in time. its seems to have happened before, though antichrist seems pretty far out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 [quote name='Jesus_lol' post='1837044' date='Apr 16 2009, 02:19 AM']well, when it comes down to it, the Pope is a human, thought to be the best representative of the catholic church by another group of humans. the whole appointed by God really has about as much behind it as when the medevial kings and pharoahs said it. so it is quite possible that an appointed Pope could be a bad man, or become one in time. its seems to have happened before, though antichrist seems pretty far out there.[/quote] All I know is a one world religion is coming and the antichrist is coming at the 6th trump before Jesus Christ at the 7th trump. I want to know for sure that any future pope or the roman catholic church wont have anything to do with this. I am seeing this new world order stuff all over and its probally misleading stuff being printed by anticatholic haters but at the same time it's overwhelmiing because there is so much of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Delivery Boy' post='1836708' date='Apr 15 2009, 09:25 PM']"Even if the Pope were Satan incarnate, we ought not to raise up our heads against him, but calmly lie down to rest on his bosom. He who rebels against our Father is condemned to death, for that which we do to him we do to Christ: we honor Christ if we honor the Pope; we dishonor Christ if we dishonor the Pope. I know very well that many defend themselves by boasting: "They are so corrupt, and work all manner of evil!" But God has commanded that, even if the priests, the pastors, and Christ-on-earth were incarnate devils, we be obedient and subject to them, not for their sakes, but for the sake of God, and out of obedience to Him." St. Catherine of Siena, SCS, p. 201-202, p. 222, (quoted in Apostolic Digest, by Michael Malone, Book 5: "The Book of Obedience", Chapter 1: "There is No Salvation Without Personal Submission to the Pope").[/quote] I just hope someone responds to this because it is really getting to me. It's disturbing. Edited April 16, 2009 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotusTuusMaria Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 [quote name='Delivery Boy' post='1836721' date='Apr 15 2009, 09:35 PM']"We confess that the Pope has power of changing Scripture and of adding to it, and taking from it, according to his will." Roman Catholic Confessions for Protestants Oath, Article XI, (Confessio Romano-Catholica in Hungaria Evangelicis publice praescripta te proposita, editi a Streitwolf), as recorded in Congressional Record of the U.S.A., House Bill 1523, Contested election case of Eugene C. Bonniwell, against Thos. S. Butler, Feb. 15, 1913.[/quote] what is this and where did you get it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 (edited) [quote name='TotusTuusMaria' post='1837050' date='Apr 16 2009, 02:28 AM']what is this and where did you get it?[/quote] The same place I got the one above it I dont even remember now. The one above it though I am finding all over. Edited April 16, 2009 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotusTuusMaria Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 [quote name='Delivery Boy' post='1836708' date='Apr 15 2009, 09:25 PM']"Even if the Pope were Satan incarnate, we ought not to raise up our heads against him, but calmly lie down to rest on his bosom. He who rebels against our Father is condemned to death, for that which we do to him we do to Christ: we honor Christ if we honor the Pope; we dishonor Christ if we dishonor the Pope. I know very well that many defend themselves by boasting: "They are so corrupt, and work all manner of evil!" But God has commanded that, even if the priests, the pastors, and Christ-on-earth were incarnate devils, we be obedient and subject to them, not for their sakes, but for the sake of God, and out of obedience to Him." St. Catherine of Siena, SCS, p. 201-202, p. 222, (quoted in Apostolic Digest, by Michael Malone, Book 5: "The Book of Obedience", Chapter 1: "There is No Salvation Without Personal Submission to the Pope").[/quote] Where in St. Catherine of Siena's works does she say this? Not that I disagree with it, but I want to read it in context if it is truly from her. I don't trust the source as it is a group that is in schism, I believe... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 (edited) [quote name='TotusTuusMaria' post='1837052' date='Apr 16 2009, 02:31 AM']Where in St. Catherine of Siena's works does she say this? Not that I disagree with it, but I want to read it in context if it is truly from her. I don't trust the source as it is a group that is in schism, I believe...[/quote] Hey Godbless Im saying this in the most sincere and humble way, how could agree with that ? Edited April 16, 2009 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotusTuusMaria Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 [quote name='Delivery Boy' post='1837051' date='Apr 16 2009, 02:31 AM']The same place I got the one above it I dont even remember now. The one above it though I am finding all over.[/quote] Well... what kind of document is it? What is it? I find this quote more troubling by far then from what St. Catherine of Siena said... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 [quote name='TotusTuusMaria' post='1837055' date='Apr 16 2009, 02:34 AM']Well... what kind of document is it? What is it? I find this quote more troubling by far then from what St. Catherine of Siena said...[/quote] ya when revelation says this : Revelation 22 - 18 I warn everyone who hears the prophetic words in this book : if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, and if anyone takes away from the words in this prophetic book, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city desribed in this book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotusTuusMaria Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 [quote name='Delivery Boy' post='1837054' date='Apr 16 2009, 02:34 AM']Hey Godbless Im saying this in the most sincere and humble way, how could agree with that ?[/quote] Well you have to think... I haven't read it in context but I would say... The Pope could never be the Devil Incarnate so that was just a figure or speech she was using. She didn't mean it literally. She was going for the most evil person she could imagine. However, no matter if he is the most evil person with the worst of intentions Christ has still appointed him as His vicar and he is infallible in all matters of faith and morals. When we practice obedience to Him we practice obedience to Christ himself because he is the Vicar of Christ. He is Christ's representative on earth. I totally agree with this. There have been many evil popes. Bad men who did terrible things and committed grave sins, however they never spoke wrongly on matters of faith and morals. Their actions may have been terrible, but when they spoke in the name of Christ they spoke purely and rightly. There was even one anti-pope who became pope and had every intention of doing something quiet terrible, but he just did not when he became pope. It is because he is bound by infallibility and guided by the Holy Spirit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 (edited) ok so what if when the antichrist comes (which it seems alot of catholics dont think is goig to happen) and he performs miracles and claims to be Christ and wants to unite all the religions, what happens if an evil pope goes along with this and tells catholics and the world this is ok ? am i to follow even though i know the antichrist comes first at the 6th trump and the Lord Jesus Christ doesnt come to the 7th trump ? again this is just a senerio although im really confused with popes calling for a new world order and all the faiths coming together. and then on top of that when i hear alot of catholics say there is no antichrist coming and it already happend and is over with, it really makes me wonder what is going on ? Edited April 16, 2009 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotusTuusMaria Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 [quote name='Delivery Boy' post='1837056' date='Apr 16 2009, 02:36 AM']ya when revelation says this : Revelation 22 - 18 I warn everyone who hears the prophetic words in this book : if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, and if anyone takes away from the words in this prophetic book, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city desribed in this book.[/quote] 1) The reason I find the previous quote troubling because taken a certain way at first it can come off very wrongly and totally against the Church. 2) Revelation 22:18 is referring to the book of revelation itself... not the entire Bible. However, because the Scriptures have been declared the Inspired Word of God by the Church and Popes for the last 2000 years a Pope could not just "dismiss" a book or "change" it. It would be like a man having a child or a woman being a priest ... It just will not happen and could not happen. God has declared the truth the books that are inspired and so God, who cannot be wrong or err or change, would not declare something different after 2000 years through the person of the Holy Father Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 (edited) [quote name='TotusTuusMaria' post='1837065' date='Apr 16 2009, 01:48 AM']1) The reason I find the previous quote troubling because taken a certain way at first it can come off very wrongly and totally against the Church. 2) Revelation 22:18 is referring to the book of revelation itself... not the entire Bible. However, because the Scriptures have been declared the Inspired Word of God by the Church and Popes for the last 2000 years a Pope could not just "dismiss" a book or "change" it. It would be like a man having a child or a woman being a priest ... It just will not happen and could not happen. God has declared the truth the books that are inspired and so God, who cannot be wrong or err or change, would not declare something different after 2000 years through the person of the Holy Father[/quote] I typed the quote in a search engine and I cant find it to show up anywhere so it might not even be authentic. I dont know. Edited April 16, 2009 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 [quote name='Delivery Boy' post='1837051' date='Apr 16 2009, 02:31 AM']The same place I got the one above it I dont even remember now. The one above it though I am finding all over.[/quote] For a quote to be an official document of the Roman See, it ordinarily has to be published in the Acta Apostolicae Sedis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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