Guest Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 Is it possible ? If it were the Catholic Church would still remain the True Church correct ? If this happened who would have authority over the pope on earth ? If it's not possible why ? Godbless, Josh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 Just for the record I am not a buffet catholic. I have been a cold catholic but I acknowledge the authority of the pope and what he teaches. I am only wondering if he could fall into error and if so how far into error could he go ? Peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 [quote name='Delivery Boy' post='1836243' date='Apr 15 2009, 03:47 PM']Just for the record I am not a buffet catholic. I have been a cold catholic but I acknowledge the authority of the pope and what he teaches. I am only wondering if he could fall into error and if so how far into error could he go ? Peace.[/quote] The Pope is protected from teaching error, so he by definition cannot be the Antichrist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1836348' date='Apr 15 2009, 04:09 PM']The Pope is protected from teaching error, so he by definition cannot be the Antichrist.[/quote] So what about this statement from Theoketos : How ever the Magisterium, or teaching authority of the Church, is not always universal or extra-ordinary. And so in those cases we only owe assent of mind and will, which allows us to disagree with certain teachings especially if we can with reason see they are not true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 "Even if the Pope were Satan incarnate, we ought not to raise up our heads against him, but calmly lie down to rest on his bosom. He who rebels against our Father is condemned to death, for that which we do to him we do to Christ: we honor Christ if we honor the Pope; we dishonor Christ if we dishonor the Pope. I know very well that many defend themselves by boasting: "They are so corrupt, and work all manner of evil!" But God has commanded that, even if the priests, the pastors, and Christ-on-earth were incarnate devils, we be obedient and subject to them, not for their sakes, but for the sake of God, and out of obedience to Him." St. Catherine of Siena, SCS, p. 201-202, p. 222, (quoted in Apostolic Digest, by Michael Malone, Book 5: "The Book of Obedience", Chapter 1: "There is No Salvation Without Personal Submission to the Pope"). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 "We confess that the Pope has power of changing Scripture and of adding to it, and taking from it, according to his will." Roman Catholic Confessions for Protestants Oath, Article XI, (Confessio Romano-Catholica in Hungaria Evangelicis publice praescripta te proposita, editi a Streitwolf), as recorded in Congressional Record of the U.S.A., House Bill 1523, Contested election case of Eugene C. Bonniwell, against Thos. S. Butler, Feb. 15, 1913. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 Revelation 22 - 18 I warn everyone who hears the prophetic words in this book : if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, and if anyone takes away from the words in this prophetic book, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city desribed in this book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 (edited) [quote]And Jesus answering said to him: Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven. And I say to thee: [b]That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.[/b] And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.[/quote] ~ Matt. 16:17-19 Jesus Christ gave Peter (the first Pope) the keys to His Kingdom, and promised the gates of hell will not prevail against it. If you believe, as a Catholic, that the Catholic Church is indeed Christ's Church on earth, entrusted with the Keys of Peter, then you must also trust in Christ's promise that the gates of hell will not prevail against it. Thus the anti-Christ will not be a Pope, for that would mean that the gates of [b]will[/b] prevail against the Church. Christ does not make false or empty promises. And get off those Jack Chick websites. That poo will rot your brain. Edited April 16, 2009 by Socrates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 [quote name='Delivery Boy' post='1836721' date='Apr 15 2009, 08:35 PM']"We confess that the Pope has power of changing Scripture and of adding to it, and taking from it, according to his will." Roman Catholic Confessions for Protestants Oath, Article XI, (Confessio Romano-Catholica in Hungaria Evangelicis publice praescripta te proposita, editi a Streitwolf), as recorded in Congressional Record of the U.S.A., House Bill 1523, Contested election case of Eugene C. Bonniwell, against Thos. S. Butler, Feb. 15, 1913.[/quote] Bullcrap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Socrates' post='1836729' date='Apr 15 2009, 08:47 PM']~ Matt. 16:17-19 Jesus Christ gave Peter (the first Pope) the keys to His Kingdom, and promised the gates of hell will not prevail against it. If you believe, as a Catholic, that the Catholic Church is indeed Christ's Church on earth, entrusted with the Keys of Peter, then you must also trust in Christ's promise that the gates of hell will not prevail against it. Thus the anti-Christ will not be a Pope, for that would mean that the gates of [b]will[/b] prevail against the Church. Christ does not make false or empty promises. And get off those Jack Chick websites. That poo will rot your brain.[/quote] Socrates Godbless Brother. I do indeed believe in the catholic church because it can trace itself back unlike any other church. My " problem " now is I am becoming aware of the Orthadox Church and am wondring why they do not submit to the popes authority ? Also websites like the one where I took the quotes from don't help either although I was not trying to attack with them but rather start discussion. I dont even know who Jack Chick is although the quotes sound horrible but i'm glad you reply that they are bullcrap and that we as catholics don't believe them. As I move on with my faith I want to have full confidence that the pope is put there by God and that he could play no role in the upcoming spirtual deception that is going to happen. It troubles me when I hear catholics say that there will be no antichrist before the return of Christ. It troubles me when I watch web of fatih (which I love) and here one of the fathers say we do not believe in the antichrist or a 1 world setup were people are forced to submit or not be able to buy or sell. This leads me to wonder if it were possible somehow a pope could work with the antichrist to usher in the mark of the beast. I got to much time on my hands I know but when the Orthadox Church can trace themselves back to Christ also and they do not accept the popes authority it makes me wonder why ? Do they believe in the very end the antichrist will work with the pope somehow ? When I hear that the pope can never error and we have to listen to everything he says even if it were wrong I dont understand this. Make it clear I am not attacking the pope or past popes. I am simply just posing the question if it could be possible the pope could become an antichrist while the Orthadox would still hold true to the quote " the gates of hell will not prevail" since they do not submit to the popes authority ? Godbless, Josh Edited April 16, 2009 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesus_lol Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 that first verse is a great big load. if the pope was satan himself we should love and honor his teaching? that sounds like a politician making bribery legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 I think there were several Renaissance Popes who came quite close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Resurrexi' post='1836825' date='Apr 15 2009, 09:57 PM']I think there were several Renaissance Popes who came quite close.[/quote] Ok so here's the thing. If this is the case and the pope is not really a postion appointed by God I should not be a member of the Roman Catholic Church correct ? I should join the orthadox church because if the pope may indeed one day become an antichrist or false prophet it would be a serious sin to try to bring people into a church where they have to submit to the authority of the pope. Correct ? So if the Pope is not really infallilble and his claims are not supported by scripture (im not saying scripture doesnt support the claims im just asking the question) and the orthadox church says that one should not submit to the pope how can one with a good conscience remain a roman catholic ? Again this it not to attack the present pope or past popes but simply to ask the question if the Orthadox Church has any leverage to their stance and postion ? One of the main things that bothers me is that I'm to listen and submit to the pope even if he's clearly teaching something immoral or wrong ? If im telling people to become roman catholic yet God is against the postion of the pope it would seem then I am going to be found guilty by God. If im aware that the claims made by the pope and his infallability are not true and his postion is really not appointed by God I need to speak up. As of right now I really dont know. I'm trying to learn stuff on this. I wasn't even familiar with the Orthadox Church to as of late and I did not realise they can also trace themselves back to Christ. Edited April 16, 2009 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 The Patriarchs of Constantinople often haven't been much better behaved than our Popes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Resurrexi' post='1836856' date='Apr 15 2009, 10:19 PM']The Patriarchs of Constantinople often haven't been much better behaved than our Popes.[/quote] Godbless Resurrexi I'm not trying to attack no ones characther because i'm a wretched sinner. I'm just wondering if it is possible the pope is not a postion appointed by God. I'm confused because I know a huge spirtual deception is coming soon. I know a supernatural antichrist is coming. I know there is going to be some type of one world religous system. I want to know going into this that I can put my complete trust and faith into the church I call home. If i'm going to rep the pope I want to make certian it's Gods will that I do that. Again I will say i'm troubled when I hear on ewtn web of faith that we do not believe in the antichrist. Because scripture clearly says that the antichrist will come to decieve at the sixth trump even decieving the ellect if that were possible and then the Lord Jesus Christ will come at the 7th trump. Edited April 16, 2009 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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