The Death Of Historical Jesus - Remembered (again)

[reyb]

[indent]Since you are the one (Catholics or Protestants) believe that your sins are forgiven thru the death of Jesus Christ more or less 2000 years ago. How come this death of historical Jesus redeemed your soul and your sins are forgiven? Can you please explain it to us other than faith (that you have been forgiven)?[/indent]

[saintwannabe 777]

[quote name='reyb' post='1829463' date='Apr 8 2009, 10:45 PM'][indent]Since you are the one (Catholics or Protestants) believe that your sins are forgiven thru the death of Jesus Christ more or less 2000 years ago. How come this death of historical Jesus redeemed your soul and your sins are forgiven? Can you please explain it to us other than faith (that you have been forgiven)?[/indent][/quote]

What do you mean by this. I'm sorry, but your question is a little vague.

[reyb]

[quote name='saintwannabe 777' post='1829490' date='Apr 8 2009, 10:54 PM']What do you mean by this. I'm sorry, but your question is a little vague.[/quote]

[indent]In what way your sins are forgiven thru his death. Or why it is necesary for him to die. Or what is the relation of his death to your sins.[/indent]

[saintwannabe 777]

[quote name='reyb' post='1829515' date='Apr 8 2009, 11:07 PM'][indent]In what way your sins are forgiven thru his death. Or why it is necesary for him to die. Or what is the relation of his death to your sins.[/indent][/quote]

It was necessary for Jesus to day because of Original Sin first and foremost. Man had no hope of going to Heaven because of man had sinned against God. For example, the severity of the crime depends not only on what has been commited but also on who it has been commited against. Since God is the Infinite Goodness, to assuage an offense against Him, the punishment would have to be Infinitely Harsh since no other punishment would be fitting. Since God is also Eternal, the punishment would also have to be Eternal. Humans are neither eternal nor infinitely good, and so we could not pay the price. But Jesus, being both God and Man is both Eternal and Infinitely Good. He lost His life, paid the price, and gave us a chance at reaching Heaven. Now, we need to accept the victory of the Lion of the Tribe of Judah and cooperate with God's grace in order to go to Heaven.

[reyb]

[quote name='saintwannabe 777' post='1829526' date='Apr 8 2009, 10:14 PM']It was necessary for Jesus to day because of Original Sin first and foremost. Man had no hope of going to Heaven because of man had sinned against God. For example, the severity of the crime depends not only on what has been commited but also on who it has been commited against. Since God is the Infinite Goodness, to assuage an offense against Him, the punishment would have to be Infinitely Harsh since no other punishment would be fitting. Since God is also Eternal, the punishment would also have to be Eternal. Humans are neither eternal nor infinitely good, and so we could not pay the price. But Jesus, being both God and Man is both Eternal and Infinitely Good. He lost His life, paid the price, and gave us a chance at reaching Heaven. Now, we need to accept the victory of the Lion of the Tribe of Judah and cooperate with God's grace in order to go to Heaven.[/quote]

[indent]In short, man cannot pay for his own sin. But, why Jesus has to die. Why not, God just forgive our sins without ‘paying’ anything? [/indent]

[jon2004]

Can you explain gravity to me without science?

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='jon2004' post='1829912' date='Apr 9 2009, 11:13 AM']Can you explain gravity to me without science?[/quote]
Stuff falls down.

[reyb]

[quote name='jon2004' post='1829912' date='Apr 9 2009, 01:13 PM']Can you explain gravity to me without science?[/quote]

[indent]Your allegory is different to the question at hand since the relation of gravity and science are obvious and found to be true. While on the other hand, the relation of the death of this historical Jesus and the forgiveness of sins are founded on ‘belief’ – that is why I am asking, ‘how come your sins are forgiven in his death?’[/indent]

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='reyb' post='1829934' date='Apr 9 2009, 11:45 AM'][indent]Your allegory is different to the question at hand since the relation of gravity and science are obvious and found to be true. While on the other hand, the relation of the death of this historical Jesus and the forgiveness of sins are founded on ‘belief’ – that is why I am asking, ‘how come your sins are forgiven in his death?’[/indent][/quote]

Belief and faith are not the same thing - although they have similarities. Faith is a gift of the spirit, and must be desired.

You can lead a horse to water but.....

[saintwannabe 777]

[quote name='reyb' post='1829695' date='Apr 9 2009, 01:14 AM'][indent]In short, man cannot pay for his own sin. But, why Jesus has to die. Why not, God just forgive our sins without ‘paying’ anything? [/indent][/quote]

One reason is because if God did that, then humanity would still have no proof of God's love. That's why St. Augustine says "o happy fault". But that's one short reason.

[Winchester]

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1829933' date='Apr 9 2009, 01:45 PM']Stuff falls down.[/quote]
Well played, sir. Well played.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1829933' date='Apr 9 2009, 12:45 PM']Stuff falls down.[/quote]
Not in space.

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1830012' date='Apr 9 2009, 01:44 PM']Not in space. [/quote]
Space is in the realm of science, since we can't observe it here on Earth (without the aid of science.)

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1830112' date='Apr 9 2009, 04:16 PM']Space is in the realm of science, since we can't observe it here on Earth (without the aid of science.)[/quote]
Cop-out.

[Moosey]

Could we stay on topic?