Apotheoun Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 We are discussing the opinions of the pope, what does the authentic magisterium have to do with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Cat Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 [quote name='Apotheoun' post='1830633' date='Apr 10 2009, 04:35 AM']We are discussing the opinions of the pope, what does the authentic magisterium have to do with that?[/quote]The Pope is an authentic teacher and instructor of the faith for the Christian faithful entrusted to his care... He gave [url="http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/speeches/2003/january/documents/hf_jp-ii_spe_20030113_diplomatic-corps_en.html"]instruction[/url]. Then he gave an opinion, which some Catholics may listen to and possibly even agree with. You suggest I have said his opinion must be agreed with. ABSOULTELY WRONG. The reason you provide no proof of it. Then you suggested that I have said his opinion is somehow greater than someone else's. WRONG. But being an authentic teacher and instructor of faith and morals, his opinion about this matter does make it a little more important to Catholics then say, the Emperor of Japan? Then you suggested that I have said Catholics must listen to the opinions of the Pope or consider them. ABSOULTELY WRONG. Where was this, you cant provide proof. All of this nonsense, its beacuse your not reading... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Mr.CatholicCat' post='1830640' date='Apr 10 2009, 02:45 AM']The Pope is an authentic teacher and instructor of the faith for the Christian faithful entrusted to his care... He gave [url="http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/speeches/2003/january/documents/hf_jp-ii_spe_20030113_diplomatic-corps_en.html"]instruction[/url]. Then he gave an opinion, which some Catholics may listen to and possibly even agree with. You suggest I have said his opinion must be agreed with. ABSOULTELY WRONG. The reason you provide no proof of it. Then you suggested that I have said his opinion is somehow greater than someone else's. WRONG. But being an authentic teacher and instructor of faith and morals, his opinion about this matter does make it a little more important to Catholics then say, the Emperor of Japan? Then you suggested that I have said Catholics must listen to the opinions of the Pope or consider them. ABSOULTELY WRONG. Where was this, you cant provide proof. All of this nonsense, its beacuse your not reading...[/quote] I see, so you are confusing the personal opinions of the pope with the authentic magisterium. The pope is an authentic teacher within the Church only in his official capacity, which by definition does not include his personal opinions. You have my prayers. That said, our disagreement is about your comment indicating that the pope's personal opinion carries "some weight," with the implication being that people must listen to him when he gives his personal opinion. I disagree with you on that issue. The pope's personal opinion has the same weight as every other man's personal opinion. As far as my reading your posts is concerned, I am reading your posts, but sadly they are written in a vague and convoluted manner, and that is why I corrected your original post which began our little debate. Here is that corrected version again: [quote name='Mr.CatholicCat' post='1830418' date='Apr 9 2009, 09:46 PM']Pope Benedict XVI from my understanding has also opposed the war. One could say this is just the opinion of two Popes, and he would be right to say that, because the opinions of the Popes carry the same weight as the opinions of any other man or group of men.[/quote] Edited April 10, 2009 by Apotheoun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Cat Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Apotheoun' post='1830641' date='Apr 10 2009, 04:51 AM']I see, so you are confusing the personal opinions of the pope with the authentic magisterium. The pope is an authentic teacher within the Church only in his official capacity, which by definition does not include his personal opinions. You have my prayers.[/quote]ABSOULTELY WRONG. How can you be so wrong so offten?[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1830641' date='Apr 10 2009, 04:51 AM']That said, our disagreement is about your comment indicating that the pope's personal opinion carries "some weight," with the implication being that people must listen to him when he gives his personal opinion. I disagree with you on that issue. The pope's personal opinion has the same weight as every other man's personal opinion.[/quote]Your evidence that I suggested this, is as much as my evidence that you strongly dislike the Pope and have serious problems with him. So again, you are ABSOULTELY WRONG.[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1830641' date='Apr 10 2009, 04:51 AM']As far as my reading your posts is concerned, I am reading your posts, but sadly they are written in a vague and convoluted manner, and that is why I corrected your original post which began our little debate.[/quote]That is why you must read, or learn how to read... But what would I do without you editing my posts, or possibly just rash accusations? Edited April 10, 2009 by Mr.CatholicCat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 [quote name='Mr.CatholicCat' post='1830642' date='Apr 10 2009, 02:57 AM']ABSOULTELY WRONG. How can you be so wrong so offten?Your evidence that I suggested this, is as much as my evidence that you strongly dislike the Pope and have serious problems with him. So again, you are ABSOULTELY WRONG.That is why you must read, or learn how to read... But what would I do without you editing my posts, or possibly just rash accusations?[/quote] Why must you constantly infuse "feelings" into the debate. I do not dislike the pope nor do I dislike you. My feelings about the pope, or you, or anyone else for that matter, are irrelevant to the discussion at hand. Our disagreement is focused solely upon your assertion that a person must give "some weight" to the pope's personal opinions. This idea is contrary to sacred tradition, and so as a Catholic I cannot agree with you. In the final analysis, the pope's opinion is just that, his personal opinion, which is binding upon no one, and which no one has to pay any attention to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Cat Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 [quote name='Apotheoun' post='1830644' date='Apr 10 2009, 05:02 AM']Why must you constantly infuse "feelings" into the debate. I do not dislike the pope nor do I dislike you. My feelings about the pope, or you, or anyone else for that matter, are irrelevant to the discussion at hand. Our disagreement is focused solely upon your assertion that a person must give "some weight" to the pope's personal opinions. This idea is contrary to sacred tradition, and so as a Catholic I cannot agree with you. In the final analysis, the pope's opinion is just that, his personal opinion, which is binding upon no one, and which no one has to pay any attention to.[/quote]I NEVER said that someone [b]must[/b] give "some weight" to a Pope's personal opinions. So you are ABSOULTELY WRONG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 [quote name='Mr.CatholicCat' post='1830645' date='Apr 10 2009, 03:04 AM']I NEVER said that someone [b]must[/b] give "some weight" to a Pope's personal opinions. So you are ABSOULTELY WRONG.[/quote] Actually you said, ". . . but the opinions of the Popes do carry some weight," and you added "moreover when they actively speak out about it." You have implied that the pope's opinion about the Iraq war should be listened to, but that does not follow from Catholic tradition. The pope's opinion has the same weight as the opinion of any other man who is not entrusted with governing authority in the United States. It is left to the prudential judgment of the civil authorities to determine when all peaceful means have been exhausted and one must go to war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Cat Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Apotheoun' post='1830646' date='Apr 10 2009, 05:10 AM']Actually you said, ". . . but the opinions of the Popes do carry some weight," and you added "moreover when they actively speak out about it." You have implied that the pope's opinion about the Iraq war should be listened to, but that does not follow from Catholic tradition. The pope's opinion has the same weight as the opinion of any other man who is not entrusted with governing authority in the United States. It is left to the prudential judgment of the civil authorities to determine when all peaceful means have been exhausted and one must go to war.[/quote]I love it when someone can't prove anything and they know their wrong, SO they say "you implied it". Then when you ask, "[b]how?[/b]" They don't answer! Apotheoun, its okay, you misunderstood and you errored... We all do it... Please stop this nonsense... Its embarassing... Dust's Sister is even commenting this nonsense. Edited April 10, 2009 by Mr.CatholicCat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 [quote name='Mr.CatholicCat' post='1830648' date='Apr 10 2009, 03:13 AM']I love it when someone can't prove anything and they know their wrong, they say "you implied" it. Then when you ask, "how?" They don't answer! Apotheoun, its okay, you misunderstood and you errored... We all do it... Please stop this nonsense... Its embarassing... Dust's Sister is even commenting this nonsense.[/quote] I did not err, you simply write poorly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Cat Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Apotheoun' post='1830649' date='Apr 10 2009, 05:14 AM']I did not err, you simply write poorly.[/quote]If that is true; Then I write as poorly as you read... Good thing I am typing! Edited April 10, 2009 by Mr.CatholicCat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust's Sister Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 Are you guys going to argue all night/morning/day?!?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 [quote name='Dust's Sister' post='1830652' date='Apr 10 2009, 03:15 AM']Are you guys going to argue all night/morning/day?!?!?[/quote] No, I doubt that we will argue all morning. Although I have the day off, I will be attending services on an off today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Cat Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 [quote name='Dust's Sister' post='1830652' date='Apr 10 2009, 05:15 AM']Are you guys going to argue all night/morning/day?!?!?[/quote]I hardly ever post, I think this is fun! But I admit extremely stupid... To answer your question, Apotheoun would have us ask the Pope... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 [quote name='Mr.CatholicCat' post='1830650' date='Apr 10 2009, 03:15 AM']Then I write as poorly as you read... Good thing I am typing![/quote] My ability to read is not impacted by your poor writing ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust's Sister Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Apotheoun' post='1830653' date='Apr 10 2009, 04:16 AM']No, I doubt that we will argue all morning. Although I have the day off, I will be attending services on an off today.[/quote] It sounds like you have nothing else better to do with your time. u argued for a straight HOUR on a MESSAGE board. Edited April 10, 2009 by Dust's Sister Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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