Apotheoun Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 [quote name='Mr.CatholicCat' post='1830583' date='Apr 10 2009, 01:32 AM']Straw man, thank you for taking up my time, its always a pleasure.[/quote] Not a straw man at all, but your constant straw man assertion is a straw man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 Your views on the nature and authority of a pope's personal opinion are contrary to the tradition of the Church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Cat Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 [quote name='Apotheoun' post='1830586' date='Apr 10 2009, 03:33 AM']Your views on the nature and authority of a pope's personal opinion are contrary to the tradition of the Church.[/quote]Considering I haven’t suggested the personal opinions of the Popes are above anyone else’s or that they have to be agreed with, I don’t know what on earth you are referring to. If some people consider the opinion of the Pope, his opinion carries "[i]some weight[/i]". But if you are suggesting that your opinion is below “[i]some weight[/i]”, which I can only assume is nothing, then that is your problem and not mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 [quote name='Mr.CatholicCat' post='1830589' date='Apr 10 2009, 01:39 AM']If some people consider the opinion of the Pope, his opinion carries "[i]some weight[/i]". But if you are suggesting that your opinion is below “[i]some weight[/i]”, which I can only assume is nothing, then that is your problem and not mine.[/quote] They have no more weight than any other man's opinions on the war in Iraq. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 [quote name='Mr.CatholicCat' post='1830589' date='Apr 10 2009, 01:39 AM']If some people consider the opinion of the Pope, his opinion carries "[i]some weight[/i]". But if you are suggesting that your opinion is below “[i]some weight[/i]”, which I can only assume is nothing, then that is your problem and not mine.[/quote] Come now! The context of your original post implied that the pope's opinions, because they -- as you put it -- carry "some weight," cannot be ignored, and that is quite simply false. No one has to pay any attention to the pope's personal opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Cat Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Apotheoun' post='1830591' date='Apr 10 2009, 03:41 AM']They have no more weight than any other man's opinions on the war in Iraq.[/quote] You arn't even reading what I write... I am done with you... Feel free to post more. [quote name='Apotheoun' post='1830592' date='Apr 10 2009, 03:43 AM']Come now! The context of your original post implied that the pope's opinions, because they -- as you put it -- carry "some weight," cannot be ignored, and that is quite simply false. No one has to pay any attention to the pope's personal opinions.[/quote]No... It didnt... But I did sort of imply something about the "authentic magisterium", but nothing more... Edited April 10, 2009 by Mr.CatholicCat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 No joke. The pope's personal opinions have no greater weight than any other man's opinions, and that is the doctrine of the Latin Church as stated in the [i]Official Relatio[/i] delivered by Bishop Gasser, head of the [i]Deputation de Fide[/i], at Vatican I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 [quote name='Mr.CatholicCat' post='1830593' date='Apr 10 2009, 01:46 AM']No... It didnt... But I did sort of imply something about the "authentic magisterium", but nothing more...[/quote] The personal opinions of a pope are not a part of the authentic magisterium of the Church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Cat Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 [quote name='Apotheoun' post='1830596' date='Apr 10 2009, 03:55 AM']No joke. The pope's personal opinions have no greater weight than any other man's opinions, and that is the doctrine of the Latin Church as stated in the [i]Official Relatio[/i] delivered by Bishop Gasser, head of the [i]Deputation de Fide[/i], at Vatican I.[/quote]Your not reading what I am writing... WHEN did I say it had greater weight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Mr.CatholicCat' post='1830598' date='Apr 10 2009, 01:56 AM']Your not reading what I am writing... WHEN did I say it had greater weight?[/quote] They have the same weight as your judgment. The use of the words "some weight" in your original post implied that a person had to take into account the pope's personal opinion in connection with the Iraq war, and that is what I disagreed with you about. The pope's personal opinion can be completely ignored by Catholics and non-Catholics alike. Edited April 10, 2009 by Apotheoun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Cat Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 [quote name='Apotheoun' post='1830600' date='Apr 10 2009, 03:59 AM']They have the same weight as your judgment. Your use of "some weight" in your original post implied that a person had to take into account the pope's personal opinion, and that is what I disagree with you about. The pope's personal opinion can be completely ignored by Catholics and non-Catholics alike.[/quote]Can be but isn't, since some people do listen to the Pope on occasion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Mr.CatholicCat' post='1830601' date='Apr 10 2009, 02:01 AM']Can be but isn't, since some people do listen to the Pope on occasion.[/quote] The pope's personal opinions are no more valid than yours or mine. Moreover, the only opinions that counted in the case of the Iraq war were those of the civil authorities in the United States, because they have been entrusted with the duty to protect the interests of our country. Now, you are free to disagree with them, just as I disagree with the current President on many issues, but -- whether you or I like it or not -- according to Catholic doctrine the President and the Congress possess the authority necessary to protect the interests of the United States. Edited April 10, 2009 by Apotheoun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 [quote name='Mr.CatholicCat' post='1830601' date='Apr 10 2009, 02:01 AM']Can be but isn't, since some people do listen to the Pope on occasion.[/quote] They should listen to him when he is acting in his official capacity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Cat Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 Apotheoun, stop making straw men... Actually READ what I write... and PLEASE stay on topic with what I am proposing... Your opinion is worthless to me as you claim the Pope's is to you, so feel free to post more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 Below is your original post corrected so that it conforms to Catholic doctrine: [quote name='Mr.CatholicCat' post='1830418' date='Apr 9 2009, 09:46 PM']Pope Benedict XVI from my understanding has also opposed the war. One could say this is just the opinion of two Popes, and he would be right to say that, because the opinions of the Popes carry the same weight as the opinions of any other man or group of men.[/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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