Archangel Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 Protestants like to point out Matthew 13:55-56 to support their belief that Jesus had biological brothers and sisters. 55 Is he not the carpenter's son? Is not his mother named Mary and his brothers James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas? 56 Are not his sisters all with us? Where did this man get all this?" Why do they quickly skip over the "Is he not the carpenter's son" part? If they argue that Jesus had biological brothers and sisters, why don't they argue that He is the biological son of Joseph ("the carpenter's son")? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annie Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 oooh, archangel, never thought of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Just Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 Answer: Bible only. No other thoughts or outside source, just take it for what it says, except for verses, that are too hard to accept like, the literal "Eat my body and drink my blood" and "This IS my body and blood" and things like "Whose ever sins you forgive, they are forgiven and whose ever sins you retain, they are retained" To them it doesnt say these things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatcatholic Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 [quote name='Archangel' date='Mar 23 2004, 08:47 PM'] Protestants like to point out Matthew 13:55-56 to support their belief that Jesus had biological brothers and sisters. 55 Is he not the carpenter's son? Is not his mother named Mary and his brothers James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas? 56 Are not his sisters all with us? Where did this man get all this?" Why do they quickly skip over the "Is he not the carpenter's son" part? If they argue that Jesus had biological brothers and sisters, why don't they argue that He is the biological son of Joseph ("the carpenter's son")? [/quote] woh, good call! i never thought about that either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the lumberjack Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 55. Is not this the carpenter's son?-- In Mark ( Mar 6:3 ) the question is, "Is not this the carpenter?" In all likelihood, our Lord, during His stay under the roof of His earthly parents, wrought along with His legal father. was that really that hard? the reason that they say that is because Joseph was not a man with riches, unlike most of the Pharisees...so he was looked down upon. They upbraid him with his father. Is not this the carpenter’s son? Yes, it is true he was reputed so: and what harm in that? No disparagement to him to be the son of an honest tradesman. They remember not (though they might have known it) that this carpenter [b]was of the house of David[/b] (Luke 1:27), a son of David (Matt. 1:20); though a carpenter, yet a person of honour. Those who are willing to pick quarrels will overlook that which is worthy and deserving, and fasten upon that only which seems mean. Some sordid spirits regard no branch, no not the Branch from the stem of Jesse (Isaiah. 11:1), if it be not the top branch. love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archangel Posted March 24, 2004 Author Share Posted March 24, 2004 Nice try, lumberjack. Do you conclude from Matt 13:55-56 that Jesus had biological brothers and sisters? Do you conclude from Matt 13:55-56 that Jesus was the biological son of Joseph? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 I've posted this three times already but I'll post it again since this verse keeps coming up in different threads. Be sure to read the part "other verses to consider" very carefully and then the conclusion. Mt 13:55 = "Is not this the carpenter's son? Is not his mother called Mary? And are not his brethren [GK, adelphos: brethren, brothers, kinsmen, etc.] James and Joseph and Simon and Judas." Mk 6:3 = "Is this not the carpenter, the son of Mary and brother [GK, adelphos: ] of James and Joses [Joseph] and Judas and Simon, and are no his sisters here with us?" Notes: 1. Joses is a variant spelling of Joseph. 2. According to my Greek Lexicon (it's non-Catholic by the way) the word adelphos means brothers or kinsmen (brethren). 3. I've read protestant scholarship which admits that the Bible is not conclusive about Jesus actually have blood brothers and sisters (I'm too lazy to dig up quotes right now). 4. The ancient Christian understanding was that Mary had no other children. These were native Greek speakers who were much closer to Christ's lifetime who certainly would know better. Other verses to consider: Mt 27:56 = "Among whom were Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joseph [Joses] and the mother of the sons of Zebedee." Mk 15:40 = "There were also women looking on from afar, among whom were Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the younger and of Joses [Joseph], and Salome, who, when he was in Galilee, followed him and misistered to him." Mk 15:47 = "Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of Joses [Joseph] saw where he was laid." Jn 20:25 = "But standing by the cross of Jesus were his mother, and his mother's sister Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene." Conclusion: It seems reasonable to infer that Mary the mother of Jesus had an adelphai also named Mary (which suggests she was probably not a full blood sister since people don't name two daughters the same thing, perhaps a cousin). So this close relative of Mary had sons named James and Joses [Joseph] and possible others (such as Salome, Judas and Simon) who would have been Christ's cousins or kinsmen (adelphos). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the lumberjack Posted March 25, 2004 Share Posted March 25, 2004 [quote name='Archangel' date='Mar 24 2004, 01:01 AM'] Nice try, lumberjack. Do you conclude from Matt 13:55-56 that Jesus had biological brothers and sisters? Do you conclude from Matt 13:55-56 that Jesus was the biological son of Joseph? [/quote] so if someone says to you..."I was talking to my friend yesterday, and he seemed really blue..." do you assume that they meant he was really the color blue? or if I should say, "I am hairy." "A kangaroo is hairy." does this mean I'm a kangaroo? and in Revelation, when it says that Christ is riding out of the sky on a white horse...does He really have a sword coming out of His mouth? just wondering... love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted March 25, 2004 Share Posted March 25, 2004 I'm not sure I get your point, lumberjack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
God Conquers Posted March 25, 2004 Share Posted March 25, 2004 Man, If He DOESN'T have a sword coming out of His mouth, I'll be super dissapointed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livin_the_MASS Posted March 26, 2004 Share Posted March 26, 2004 Lumberjack check this out . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . For adults only . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . [quote][b]Why didn't Joseph and Mary have sex if they were married?[/b] Ah! A great question with which to conclude this chapter and this book. In fact, in some ways Joseph and Mary's marriage provides a summary of eveything I've tried to say. Joseph and Mary's marriage is a paradox within a paradox, a "double mystery," so to speak. Marriage is itself mysterious paradox in that the two become one through the sexual union. But the marriage of Joesph and Mary is doublely mysterious and paradoxial because they never had sexual union. What could this possibly mean? To the extent that we can know it, the great "nuptial mystery" of the universe is actually revealed through this virginal marriage. God gave Joesph and Mary an exceptional calling: to live the marital vocation and the celibate vocation at the sametime. Remember what the celibate vocation is? It's the heavenly marriage. Joseph and Mary's marriage is the union of earthly marriage and the heavenly marriage. It's the marriage of heaven and earth. And what's the fruit of this celibate marriage? The Word made flesh. The fruit of their heavenly and earthly marriage is the wedding of the divine and human in one flesh---Jesus Christ, the center of the universe and of history. This is why the Church's teaching on sex is good news. From the beginning, the one flesh union of Adam and Eve was a foreshowding of the Incarnation. God created sex as the fundamental revelation in creation of his plan of life and love---his plan to share his eternal life and love with us by becoming one in the flesh with us. This is the great "nuptial mystery" of the universe in which we're all called to participate. This is why we crave sexual union: because we crave union with God. This is why the devil so often tempts us to distort sexual union: because he wants to keep us from union with God. Don't fall for his lies. Live according to the truth of your sexuality, and you'll fulfill the very meaning of your being and existence. Live according to the truth of your sexuality, and you'll one day live forever in the eternal climax of the nuptial union of Christ and The Church.[/quote] This is a quote out of Chistopher West's Book "The good new about sex and marriage". Hope this helps you understand about Joesph and Mary and the "family issue"!!! God Bless In the Love of Christ Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted March 27, 2004 Share Posted March 27, 2004 Response, Lumberjack? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livin_the_MASS Posted March 27, 2004 Share Posted March 27, 2004 Bump that response! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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