Did We Leave Behind Too Many Of Our Jewish Roots?

[Aloysius]

[quote name='pat22' post='1827916' date='Apr 7 2009, 06:09 PM']you say Jesus came to fulfill the old testament not to abolish it, but obviously it is abolished. you've simply renamed the same meaning.[/quote]
abolishing the old covenant would mean that the old covenant had been wrong or was wrong now in some way and therefore needed to be done away with.

fulfilling the Old Covenant means that everything done in the old covenant was done so that Jesus Christ may do what He has done and establish His Church and therefore it is unnecessary now.

try it in this way: the Old Testament Hebrews were the hosts of the great feast of salvation. they were ordered by God to cook the meal and set up the silverware and plates. when the guests arrived (the Gentiles) to salvation (because Christ came and made the feast occur), the Jews cannot say "welcome, now it is time for YOU to set up the silverware and cook the meal too!"... they prepared it, but the times for preparation are over because Christ fulfilled all the meaning of the Old Covenant.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='pat22' post='1827651' date='Apr 7 2009, 12:55 PM']We are the "New Jews" but do you think we left behind too many Jewish holidays, traditions,ECT....?[/quote]

If you look at the Church's liturgy, it is clear that the Catholic Church fulfills Old Testament Judaism. Our greatest holy days (Easter and Whitsunday) are fulfillments of the Old Testament holy days of the Pasch and Pentecost. The Church's greatest Sacrament, the Eucharist, fulfills the paschal meal. In her official prayer, the Divine Office, the Church recites the entire psalter on a weekly or bi-weekly basis.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Resurrexi' post='1828109' date='Apr 7 2009, 06:17 PM']If you look at the Church's liturgy, it is clear that the Catholic Church fulfills Old Testament Judaism. Our greatest holy days (Easter and Whitsunday) are fulfillments of the Old Testament holy days of the Pasch and Pentecost. The Church's greatest Sacrament, the Eucharist, fulfills the paschal meal. In her official prayer, the Divine Office, the Church recites the entire psalter on a weekly or bi-weekly basis.[/quote]
This is one of the rare occasions where you and I agree.

[Resurrexi]

I think that we agree more than you know

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Resurrexi' post='1828145' date='Apr 7 2009, 06:41 PM']I think that we agree more than you know [/quote]
You're probably right.

[pat22]

just a question here. the only thing Jews don't believe in that we do is Jesus and all he instituted, right?

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='pat22' post='1828849' date='Apr 8 2009, 11:24 AM']just a question here. the only thing Jews don't believe in that we do is Jesus and all he instituted, right?[/quote]
Well that's kind of a big piece...but, uh, yeah, I guess the answer would be yes.
But that's like saying:
Well the only thing that's difference between the Muslims and Catholics is that Muhammad guy and the stuff he said.

[PlainCatholic]

For your consideration and without any spirit of debate:

Jesus' words in
Matthew 9:14-17
Mark 2:18-22
Luke 5:33-39

The light we keep lit before the Tabernacle is the present version of the Ner Tamid which was kept alight always in the Temple at Jerusalem.

The older Catholic churches also had a canopy over the altar in imitation of the veil in the Temple at Jerusalem.

Some monastic orders still pray the Divine Office prayers at the same times as prayers in the Temple were prayed by the Jews.

[thessalonian]

We are not the new Jews. That is replacement theology. We have been grafted on to Israel as Paul says in Romans 11.

[pat22]

Ok, I KNOW New Jews is a term for Catholics,but that's hardly relevant. I started this topic to see if anyone else maybe thought Jesus didn't intend for us to be so separated from Jewish culture. to mature my theory. can someone firmly, non-assumingly, disprove it?

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='pat22' post='1829374' date='Apr 8 2009, 10:07 PM']Ok, I KNOW New Jews is a term for Catholics,but that's hardly relevant. I started this topic to see if anyone else maybe thought Jesus didn't intend for us to be so separated from Jewish culture. to mature my theory. can someone firmly, non-assumingly, disprove it?[/quote]

We are not new jews.
I think if you re-read all of the above posts you will find they already did.
To claim that Jesus didn't intend us to be seperated from Jewish culture is to claim He wasn't God and didn't know what would happen in the future, not a claim I think you don't want to make.

Have you thought about:

Jesus claimed himself a Son of God, that is blasphemy for a jew.
He claimed to hear the voice of God Almighty, not something to endear him to the religious leaders.
He asked his followers to eat his his Body, and drink his Blood on a regular basis - which to the jewish mind is cannabalism and abomination.
He dismissed the minutiae of jewish law that the jewish use to lovingly enshrine the Torah.
He embraced all people and cultures - which the jews rejected.

[MIKolbe]

I suppose the question "Did We Leave Behind Too Many Of Our Jewish Roots?", begs a further question..

What is the correct amount of our Jewish Roots that we have been commanded to take with us?

[pat22]

can we be a little more open-minded?

[Lilllabettt]

[quote name='StColette' post='1827792' date='Apr 7 2009, 04:49 PM']Jews deny that the Messiah has come, so you can call yourself a Jew if you want but you would be in the same breath deny Christ.[/quote]

Just want to clarify. Being Jewish does not = denying Christ.

The problem with Jesus as far as the scribes were concerned was that He made it clear on repeated ocassions that His followers were to substitute His person for the Torah. "I am the Law," is not something they could stomach from anyone but God.

[dairygirl4u2c]

"We are not new jews."
the christians in the early church were often called "christian jews"
whether rightly or wrongly, or by who, or how much etc... i don't know. but it's true.


[quote]Have you thought about:

Jesus claimed himself a Son of God, that is blasphemy for a jew.
He claimed to hear the voice of God Almighty, not something to endear him to the religious leaders.
He asked his followers to eat his his Body, and drink his Blood on a regular basis - which to the jewish mind is cannabalism and abomination.
He dismissed the minutiae of jewish law that the jewish use to lovingly enshrine the Torah.
He embraced all people and cultures - which the jews rejected.[/quote]

some of the changes might be cause of a new covenant fulfilling an old. but, it also seems many are replacing and contradicting hte old.

if judiasm was true, then it can't be contradicted?
was only the flawed teachings were what was conradicted?
(which were true and which were wrong? or does that not really matter? i am asking to know, not being sarcastic etc)