Consensual Living

[Luthien]

Wow, so kids don't need parents? Lord of the Flies? Come on now...I always appreciated, maybe not at the time, but later on that my parents did not succumb to our(my siblings) every whim. Adults know best in most cases IMHO.

[Nihil Obstat]

I think that children should have a limited expectation of privacy, but when I say limited I definitely mean limited.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1826718' date='Apr 6 2009, 08:02 PM']For sure I don't agree about the privacy thing, not to that degree. But I do feel there is an enormous problem in America with children being allowed to live under their parents roof as if they own the place. There is this little boy that I love a lot and I see him a couple times a week, he's 9 years old--JUST turned 9 years old. We were talking about things and somehow we got on bills and you should have seen his cute little face when I told him all the bills his parents have to pay for JUST to be able to LIVE in the house, nevermind general maintenance and upkeep. I wanted him to feel great gratitude for his parents and what they do to provide for him and his 3 older brothers. Children take things for granted, they just don't know about stuff. He was MOST shocked to learn that mommy and daddy have to pay for the cable. He thought cable was free!!! Now, this is only a 9 year old child, so we expect him not to know stuff, but there are teens who think the same way. Clueless. Cluelessness breeds ingratitude. Ingratitude breeds selfishness.[/quote]

And this is also why children and teenagers should not be given an allowance for simple household chores, such as washing the dishes and mowing the lawn. My parents never gave us allowance although they did provide movie money when I was in high school. However, they did NOT go crazy by handing us huge bills to waste on unnecessary clothing, etc. and we were taught that our responsibilities around the house were just that, responsibilities - things that were expected of us.

[Luthien]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1826745' date='Apr 6 2009, 10:17 PM']And this is also why children and teenagers should not be given an allowance for simple household chores, such as washing the dishes and mowing the lawn. My parents never gave us allowance although they did provide movie money when I was in high school. However, they did NOT go crazy by handing us huge bills to waste on unnecessary clothing, etc. and we were taught that our responsibilities around the house were just that, responsibilities - things that were expected of us.[/quote]

Thats about how my parents rolled, I like that model a lot.

[eagle_eye222001]

Always amazed when my parents would hear stories of kids getting $20 for doing their lawn or doing simple chores such as trash. If the lawn needed to be mowed, my Mom would tell one of us to start mowing or if the trash needed to be taken out, we got told, (asked but it was understood to be in manner of being told).

I think I got paid for a couple things but that was when I was graduating from high school and one of the chores was to stain the big wooden swing-set we had. Not a 5 minute job. Took me like half a day or something like that. And I got paid a respectable amount for it. It wasn't a sack of bills

----------------
Now playing: [url="http://www.foxytunes.com/artist/matt+maher/track/empty+and+beautiful"]Matt Maher - Empty And Beautiful[/url]
via [url="http://www.foxytunes.com/signatunes/"]FoxyTunes[/url]

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Luthien' post='1826746' date='Apr 6 2009, 09:19 PM']Thats about how my parents rolled, I like that model a lot.[/quote]
When my kids wanted an allowance connected to doing chores, I told them I would start charging them for all the stuff I did for them, so I would get paid as well.

[CatherineM]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1826754' date='Apr 6 2009, 07:25 PM']The two most outspoken and opinionated female members of this forum tend to be the ones who receive the most harassment.[/quote]

I'm fairly outspoken and opinionated, and the guys don't hassle me except when I mention the death penalty. Of course, they may be trying to and I miss it.


As to the topic of the thread, my oldest had a boy scout leader who tried something similar on a week long campout. The boys returned, encrusted in goo, half starved, and wild eyed. On the positive side, I didn't have to wash an entire duffel bag full of wet dirty clothes. They were all clean and folded just like when I packed it. He had basically left it to them to decide when to eat, and what, and how they were going to fix it. It was a failed experiment.

[Socrates]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1826443' date='Apr 6 2009, 04:38 PM']More hippy garbage from my generation - my apologies.[/quote]
Exactly.

[homeschoolmom]

Many people have the habit of ending instructions with "Okay?" As in, "It's time to get ready for bed, okay?" Or "We're going to go to the grocery store, okay?" (I think women are especially guilty of this.) While adults know it is merely a verbal tick, rather than opening up a discussion, children don't. When I was a teacher, I quickly learned to stop doing that.

Never ask children to answer a question when the answer has already been predetermined by you.... Fine to ask what kind of sandwich they want or which shirt they want to wear if it makes no difference to you. But if you ask them carte blanche if they want to go to bed now....

[Fidei Defensor]

Some of that is absurd, but I understand the sentiments.

I work with elementary aged kids every day, and there is something to be said for taking the time to actually understand what's going on in a given situation from the kid's point of view, rather than pulling out the old "I'm the adult, do it my way or it's the highway" approach. That doesn't mean putting the kid in charge, it means taking a moment to realize they are human just like us and make mistakes. Adults do need to be the authority, but that doesn't mean abusing it. If you fail to try and understand a kid, you'll never learn how to appropriately deal with conflicts.

A classic example is the clash between myself and the tutors I work with and the teacher who leads our homework club group. Her approach is to yell first, ask questions later. Our general approach is to talk to the kids in any given situation, and first find out what the problem is and deal with it accordingly. I can tell you that the kids have much more respect for those of us who actually care about what's going on than they have for the teachers who just yell at them and assume whatever is going on is just kids misbehaving.

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' post='1826871' date='Apr 6 2009, 07:43 PM']Many people have the habit of ending instructions with "Okay?" As in, "It's time to get ready for bed, okay?" Or "We're going to go to the grocery store, okay?" (I think women are especially guilty of this.) While adults know it is merely a verbal tick, rather than opening up a discussion, children don't. When I was a teacher, I quickly learned to stop doing that.

Never ask children to answer a question when the answer has already been predetermined by you.... Fine to ask what kind of sandwich they want or which shirt they want to wear if it makes no difference to you. But if you ask them carte blanche if they want to go to bed now.... [/quote]
I agree. The only time asking "okay?" works is if you're giving them a choice in their behavior (in non-essential things) like when we have quiet reading time. When one of the kids I work with comes in, I tell him "you may go sit in the cushy chairs and read, but only if you're actually reading, okay?" It gives him the choice and lays the responsibility of behaving appropriately squarely on him, rather than me commanding him to be quiet. If he chooses to not read, then I can say "well, we agreed that you'd be reading if you were over here, so now you have to come back and work with me at a table." They tend to choose to read quietly when they think they've got the choice.

[Luthien]

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1826873' date='Apr 6 2009, 11:44 PM']Some of that is absurd, but I understand the sentiments.

I work with elementary aged kids every day, and there is something to be said for taking the time to actually understand what's going on in a given situation from the kid's point of view, rather than pulling out the old "I'm the adult, do it my way or it's the highway" approach. That doesn't mean putting the kid in charge, it means taking a moment to realize they are human just like us and make mistakes. Adults do need to be the authority, but that doesn't mean abusing it. If you fail to try and understand a kid, you'll never learn how to appropriately deal with conflicts.

A classic example is the clash between myself and the tutors I work with and the teacher who leads our homework club group. Her approach is to yell first, ask questions later. Our general approach is to talk to the kids in any given situation, and first find out what the problem is and deal with it accordingly. I can tell you that the kids have much more respect for those of us who actually care about what's going on than they have for the teachers who just yell at them and assume whatever is going on is just kids misbehaving.[/quote]

Oh yeah I can see where you're coming from, but this article touts a whole, "no authority figure" type thing. I think thats where my beef lies really. (hmmm beef.)

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='Luthien' post='1826879' date='Apr 6 2009, 07:47 PM']Oh yeah I can see where you're coming from, but this article touts a whole, "no authority figure" type thing. I think thats where my beef lies really. (hmmm beef.)[/quote]
Yeah, that whole idea is crazy. There needs to be authority. Of course, we may disagree how that authority is used, but we can agree that there needs to be some kind of authority.

[Sojourner]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1826745' date='Apr 6 2009, 06:17 PM']And this is also why children and teenagers should not be given an allowance for simple household chores, such as washing the dishes and mowing the lawn. My parents never gave us allowance although they did provide movie money when I was in high school. However, they did NOT go crazy by handing us huge bills to waste on unnecessary clothing, etc. and we were taught that our responsibilities around the house were just that, responsibilities - things that were expected of us.[/quote]
I completely agree with this way of doing things. My younger brother is going to stay with us this summer and work for my husband. He'll be paid for his work, with the stipulation that he saves 50 percent of it in a joint account with my parents. That way, he gets some money to spend as he likes, but not so much that he's left with too much discretionary income. That sets an unrealistic precedent for kids as they go forward into adulthood, where you do have real-life responsibilities.

One of my sisters-in-law had parents that took the whole teaching-kids-financial-responsibility a little too far, though. They made her pay rent when she was in high school, along with her other expenses, and if she didn't pay she had to sleep in the car until she came up with it. That constitutes abuse, in my book.

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Terra Firma' post='1826903' date='Apr 6 2009, 10:01 PM']One of my sisters-in-law had parents that took the whole teaching-kids-financial-responsibility a little too far, though. They made her pay rent when she was in high school, along with her other expenses, and if she didn't pay she had to sleep in the car until she came up with it. That constitutes abuse, in my book.[/quote]

Shheeee... ya think?