Franciscan University Thread

[XIX]

Some people just enjoy playing FUS-ball more than others I guess.

[StColette]

[quote name='Maggie' post='1826215' date='Apr 6 2009, 11:20 AM']I think you are right on the technical vs. academic approach, people say that FUS is "the ITT Tech of Catholic schools," in other words they pump out effective evangelists for the kingdom, but no serious scholarship.[/quote]

I wouldn't say they don't pump out serious scholarship. It really depends on what you concentrate on while you are there. I focused on Biblical Studies, languages, and Mariology while there. I took the toughest Biblical Professor there when many dropped him after the first day of class, lol. He had us doing exegetical work within a few weeks. Most of the other Biblical Professors did not require this of their students until the next semester of studies. I would say that most of the students aren't there to become scholars, but the ones that are can apply themselves in more specific areas to help insure better preparation. Personally, my goal is Old Testament Studies which is why I took Hebrew while at Franciscan.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Maggie' post='1826215' date='Apr 6 2009, 11:20 AM']I think you are right on the technical vs. academic approach, people say that FUS is "the ITT Tech of Catholic schools," in other words they pump out effective evangelists for the kingdom, but no serious scholarship.[/quote]
Now, now, I wouldn't say no serious scholarship. If you put in an effort and read beyond your requirements and all, the profs definitely encourage more scholarly students and you can go well beyond the technical level with them, but you can also pass the courses without going the extra mile. What I would say is that it's more geared toward technical work and evangelization than lifelong study, but if you go there with an academic desire and make that known to your professors, they are more than capable of taking you to that level.

They do have some fairly demanding classes, I just don't think their classes are geared toward learning for the sake of learning so much as they are learning for the sake of the Kingdom. A lot of people pass through the program and get a great education, but aren't really scholarly people (I do not mean that they are any lower than others, simply that they may be more into different aspects of their education), while there are still others who love to learn and want to grow and go further. You can tell the difference by going to the pub on campus...the people routinely sitting down and discussing Kierkegaard over a beer are the academic ones...those socializing and watching sports on the big screen may not be so interested in the academic side of things (of course, I'm overgeneralizing, since scholars can certainly watch sports, etc., but my point is that there are those at FUS who find non-academic things leisurely and there are those who, while enjoying many non-academic pursuits, find themselves prone to academia). There are some darn brilliant people at FUS who, together with their professors, take their education very seriously, but it's a school where the student has to make something of it, they can't expect the school to make something of it for them because the school's default position (de facto) is to train young Catholics to evangelize, whatever their field, not to spend their lives studying (and yes, this is a point where I believe that FUS could grow, but I don't believe in blaming the university for it).

[CatherineM]

My school doesn't have paid GA positions. All courses are taught by professors. So there isn't that kind of money to attend school. There are a lot of bursaries. I don't get as much of that because I'm not full time. Plus the province pays my way because I'm disabled. Half the students are seminarians so they don't pay at all, their diocese does. The cost of the courses run $486-586 depending on how you take the class. That's 600-732 in US dollars for a 3 hour course, so $200-250 an hour. I paid $36/hour for my doctorate 25 years ago, so that was a lot less. Newman doesn't offer MA's here. They offer MDiv, MTh, MTS, MRE, and a GCCSA (for Catholic School Administrators).

For PhD, some of my classmates have gone from here to St. Thomas in Toronto, Fribourg in Switzerland, one is going to a school in Germany (she's a Karl Rahner enthusiast), and one is going to the Gregorian in Rome. I've never heard anyone say they couldn't get into a program. Many don't try because they aren't interested in going past the masters level. I probably won't. If I do it will be to get a JCL. That would mean a few years in Ottawa or D.C., and I'm too much of a home body now.

[Brother Adam]

[quote name='Maggie' post='1826215' date='Apr 6 2009, 12:20 PM']I think you are right on the technical vs. academic approach, people say that FUS is "the ITT Tech of Catholic schools," in other words they pump out effective evangelists for the kingdom, but no serious scholarship.[/quote]

Who are people and how do you know they are right? All of the alum here are refuting everything being said about our school. If I thought FUS was croutons I would have dropped the program. Most schools it is possible to skate by on easy classes and take challenging classes. Most bosses I have interviewed with only want to know two things - how much do I know and how well can I do the job. The work here is scholarly. Undergraduate students are equipped with a working knowledge of modern biblical scholarship and the well known work scholars are doing. Undergrads are also already equipped with a working knowledge of how to do scholarly research and practice it on a limited level. Grad students go deeper. Grad students do not do intensive exegetical work that requires languages, but they do some research. Is the exegetical work as intensive as other schools? No, but no one here claims that. Is it as bad as jksoren makes it out to be? Not at all - I'm convinced that is mostly anger. He has some very relevant points, but it remains a great education at an excellent school. The degree, which is worth its weight in gold though, is clear enough by its name - theology and Christian ministry. There is not a great deal though that FUS students don't have that other schools offer, and FUS students gain a greater knowledge of other areas such as Mariology and Christian spirituality that is lacking at other schools. I would also say they gain a greater appreciation for orthodox biblical research done the same way the Fathers did their research as opposed to post-modern biblical research that is based on a hermeneutic of suspicion.

[Apotheoun]

Going to a top ranked school does not mean that one is automatically a scholar.

A person's education is a synergistic effort involving the institution, the professors, and the student.

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1826310' date='Apr 6 2009, 07:03 PM']Going to a top ranked school does not mean that one is automatically a scholar.

A person's education is a synergistic effort involving the institution, the professors, and the student.[/quote]
Incidentally, certain programmes at other universities may even be better than those at what are generally considered better ranked schools. Obviously I don't know about theology programmes, but I do know this is the case with some archaeology programmes.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Brother Adam' post='1826304' date='Apr 6 2009, 01:47 PM']Who are people and how do you know they are right? All of the alum here are refuting everything being said about our school. If I thought FUS was croutons I would have dropped the program. Most schools it is possible to skate by on easy classes and take challenging classes. Most bosses I have interviewed with only want to know two things - how much do I know and how well can I do the job. The work here is scholarly. Undergraduate students are equipped with a working knowledge of modern biblical scholarship and the well known work scholars are doing. Undergrads are also already equipped with a working knowledge of how to do scholarly research and practice it on a limited level. Grad students go deeper. Grad students do not do intensive exegetical work that requires languages, but they do some research. Is the exegetical work as intensive as other schools? No, but no one here claims that. Is it as bad as jksoren makes it out to be? Not at all - I'm convinced that is mostly anger. He has some very relevant points, but it remains a great education at an excellent school. The degree, which is worth its weight in gold though, is clear enough by its name - theology and Christian ministry. There is not a great deal though that FUS students don't have that other schools offer, and FUS students gain a greater knowledge of other areas such as Mariology and Christian spirituality that is lacking at other schools. I would also say they gain a greater appreciation for orthodox biblical research done the same way the Fathers did their research as opposed to post-modern biblical research that is based on a hermeneutic of suspicion.[/quote]

You bring up an interesting point about different courses that aren't offered at other colleges. FUS is one of two universities in the US that offers angelology (the other, I believe, is the Dominican House of Studies in DC).

[Maggyie]

What I mean is that it is not a research institution, they are not looking for "new knowledge." The students are not really expected or trained to make their own discoveries with the material, rather the focus seems to be on assimilation of what the Church currently teaches and equipping the students with the ability to communicate that teaching to others. With a doctoral program they are going to want to see the former approach and not care so much about the latter, which is probably the problem jksoren is encountering...

[quote name='Brother Adam' post='1826304' date='Apr 6 2009, 02:47 PM']Who are people and how do you know they are right? All of the alum here are refuting everything being said about our school. If I thought FUS was croutons I would have dropped the program. Most schools it is possible to skate by on easy classes and take challenging classes. Most bosses I have interviewed with only want to know two things - how much do I know and how well can I do the job. The work here is scholarly. Undergraduate students are equipped with a working knowledge of modern biblical scholarship and the well known work scholars are doing. Undergrads are also already equipped with a working knowledge of how to do scholarly research and practice it on a limited level. Grad students go deeper. Grad students do not do intensive exegetical work that requires languages, but they do some research. Is the exegetical work as intensive as other schools? No, but no one here claims that. Is it as bad as jksoren makes it out to be? Not at all - I'm convinced that is mostly anger. He has some very relevant points, but it remains a great education at an excellent school. The degree, which is worth its weight in gold though, is clear enough by its name - theology and Christian ministry. There is not a great deal though that FUS students don't have that other schools offer, and FUS students gain a greater knowledge of other areas such as Mariology and Christian spirituality that is lacking at other schools. I would also say they gain a greater appreciation for orthodox biblical research done the same way the Fathers did their research as opposed to post-modern biblical research that is based on a hermeneutic of suspicion.[/quote]

[Apotheoun]

In the Byzantine Tradition there is a name for "new knowledge" in theology . . . it is called heresy.

[Jaime]

[quote name='Maggie' post='1826323' date='Apr 6 2009, 02:27 PM']What I mean is that it is not a research institution, they are not looking for "new knowledge." The students are not really expected or trained to make their own discoveries with the material, rather the focus seems to be on assimilation of what the Church currently teaches and equipping the students with the ability to communicate that teaching to others. With a doctoral program they are going to want to see the former approach and not care so much about the latter, which is probably the problem jksoren is encountering...[/quote]

Is everything that you post directly pulled from your butt?

[Lilllabettt]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1826326' date='Apr 6 2009, 03:31 PM']In the Byzantine Tradition there is a name for "new knowledge" in theology . . . it is called heresy.[/quote]

I think what she is referring to is the development of doctrine.

[Lilllabettt]

[quote name='hot stuff' post='1826328' date='Apr 6 2009, 03:32 PM']Is everything that you post directly pulled from your butt?[/quote]


Is that how they teach people to argue at Franciscan?

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Lilllabettt' post='1826329' date='Apr 6 2009, 12:32 PM']I think what she is referring to is the development of doctrine.[/quote]
Eastern Christians reject the modern notion of "doctrinal development."

[Maggyie]

[quote name='hot stuff' post='1826328' date='Apr 6 2009, 03:32 PM']Is everything that you post directly pulled from your butt?[/quote]

No?

Sorry, am I offending people? I don't mean to. Obviously it's his fault for not doing the research about the program he wanted to enter. I'm just saying Franciscan's priority seems to be producing evangelizers rather than PhD's. Nothing wrong with that, I think it's good, you don't need a doctorate to save souls which is kind of the point of our existence here. Obviously he wanted something else and he should have stepped more carefully.