Franciscan University Thread

[Brother Adam]

How is the school deceptive like a used car salesman? I've never heard FUS make any of the claims in your list. Defranchized amazon reviews are some times full of croutons. I find that most people who are pissed off at this school are so because when they leave the school they realize that they took out a tremendous number of loans to go there. The school openly warns people about the reality of how much they will make in their given field. I'm burdened by a tremendous amount of debt in a field where the medium income is about 30k a year. That is not the schools fault, and I don't mind living in near poverty. I don't need "things" to be happy, just our basic needs met.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' post='1824350' date='Apr 4 2009, 09:17 AM']'have a good experience'
'you get what you put into it'
etc etc
all rationalizations, excuses, and by far, cliches.
there's some truth to them, but, there's truth to a lot of things.
at any rate, the poster needs more sympathey and has a lot of compelling 'other side of the coin' responses[/quote]
Dairygirl,

The comments that I (and others) have made may be cliches to you, and of course you have a right to your opinion on the matter, even though I do not share it. I was pleased with the MA program at FUS overall.

Was it perfect? No (of course no program of study is going to be perfect).

Did it focus upon the areas of theology that interest me most? No. But then no MA program in the United States focuses primarily upon Eastern Catholic / Eastern Orthodox theology.

Was the FUS program basically a good one? Yes, and in a general way it fulfilled what I was looking for in an MA program.

Why did I choose to go to FUS for my MA? Because even with its many weaknesses it was the most Catholic of the programs I looked into.

In the final analysis JKSOREN made a decision, a decision he now regrets, but it was his choice in the first place to go to FUS. If he is unhappy with that choice now, it is his own fault. He should have done more research (something anyone who intends to do a grad level degree should be able to do) before he choose to attend FUS, because the cost of the FUS MA program is no secret. I knew exactly how much it was going to cost for my two years at FUS before I went. That he didn't do the math is his own problem, and whining about it now will do him no good. Finally, as far as college rankings are concerned, he should have been able to figure that out too, because the college ranking system is not a secret, and so yet again he has only himself to blame. As I said in an earlier post, I could have gone to a higher ranked school for my MA in theology if I wanted (USF), but I chose not to go there because I wanted a degree focused solely upon Catholic theology. As far as I am concerned, the desire to go to a prestigious school is a bit pompous, but if it makes a person happy he should go for it, but it was never all that important to me.

We all make choices in life, and we must learn to live with those choices. The bitterness of JKSOREN is the result of his own ineptitude when it came to choosing a university for his MA in theology. To be blunt, he should have done more research before choosing a program of study, and that he didn't do that is his own fault.

God grant you many joyful years,
Todd

Edited April 4, 2009 by Apotheoun

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' post='1824356' date='Apr 4 2009, 09:45 AM']i obviously have no vested interest any of this, and can't speak much.
just wanted to give some sympathy to someone i saw as getting lambasted.
course, it was from people who went to the school, and were defensive, but still.[/quote]
True, you have no vested interest in the present discussion. It is also true that you have no special competence in the present discussion because you have no first hand knowledge of what FUS is like. Having sympathy for someone is all well and good, and I too have sympathy for JKSOREN, even though he has no one to blame but himself. After all he is an adult and he should have been able to do – as I and others have done – the research necessary to see if the FUS program would really fulfill his needs and expectations. Sadly, he didn't do that, but for his naiveté in choosing an MA program he has my sympathy.

Edited April 4, 2009 by Apotheoun

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='Brother Adam' post='1824360' date='Apr 4 2009, 04:51 PM']Yes, if I were to go to England it would be a research degree at Maryvalle. I'm also looking at Fordham in the US.[/quote]
Very cool. I'm a couple of hours from there.

[dairygirl4u2c]

looking closer he didn't really make a very strong case. mostly just slamming it without much factual basis per expectations of what he wanted.
some of my hypo might be applicable, maybe not
from the other side of view, i would reiterate what poster said above

[quote]If I wanted to get a Phd, I would look up how many people in the programs I'm considering get Phds and where they went. That's basic research that should be done before you choose a graduate program. If it's a crummy program, and not going to get you where you need to go, and you knew it, why did you sign up? If you didn't know, why didn't you know?[/quote]

not questions in a rhetorical 'it's your fault' sense.
rather, questions in a 'could you, did you even try, was it even possible, was it reasonable etc' more objective sense.
also, in a 'is this place just a used car salesman' out of curiosity, sense. (even if he was duped and it's his own fault, still a good question

[XIX]

[quote name='jksoren' post='1823198' date='Apr 3 2009, 01:24 AM']How do you KNOW that God is calling you to formally study theology (getting a BA in it), even if you know that practically speaking it doesn't make sense? I mean, how do you discern God's will in this?

People don't "feed a family" working at Wal-Mart or fast food restaurants. These kinds of service jobs were never been intended to help entire families survive. Historically, jobs like McDonalds were held part time by teenage kids, etc. The uneducated blue-collar worker typically was MUCH better off working in heavy industry (what steel mills in Steubenville used to provide). However, today people are trying to survive by working extremely low paying jobs behind fast food counters or stocking shelves at Wal-Mart...and it is ill advised! Even if the entire household holds such jobs it is often NOT sufficient to make ends meet, etc. Theology professors (teaching at a university) CAN in fact make a decent living. DRE's can too, if you're not married and/or don't have the intent of having a large family.

Franciscan does give students the pep talk about not blaming them when you can't get a job after graduation, but the truth is it's not just because of the degree in theology. Quite frankly, the worst part about having a theology degree from Franciscan is the fact that its a degree from Franciscan and not really so much the fact that its in theology. However, AT ANY SCHOOL, getting a humanities degree that doesn't translate into jobs (if you have no intent of becoming a scholar already) is ill advised. Students at top universities actually know this. That's why, even if their school has the best theology/philosophy department in the country, they almost always double major in some practical field like economics. At UCLA you'd see this all the time: PoliSci/Classics, Biology/Philosophy, etc. In fact, I think that double majoring is pretty good idea regardless of this.[/quote]
Weird.

You do realize that you could state your case without being abhorrently hypercritical of everything you don't like about FUS, don't you?

[StColette]

[quote name='Maggie' post='1823781' date='Apr 3 2009, 06:07 PM']You're right that it's the student's responsibility to be informed about what classes they need to take etc... especially at the Master's level. On the other hand I can see where undergrads might need a little more hand-holding. But that's what faculty advisers are for. And you're also right that really if you're going to seriously study theology you shouldn't need a language requirement spelled out for you, it should be taken for granted.

I [i]have [/i]heard some bad stuff about some of the friars/profs from other alumni, which shocked me and initially I discounted it, but I have heard it confirmed a couple times, not any entire departments in the gutter but one or two flakes. Personally I think orthodoxy in a college setting is over-rated except in terms of fellowship and extracurriculars.[/quote]

I only know of one faculty member that I personally find unorthodox. I won't give names because it's entirely inappropriate. Any institution is bound to have a few faculty members that are a bit off, but from my experience with the FUS faculty most of them are teaching what is orthodox. I would not say that orthodoxy in a college setting is over-rated. If you want to know what the Church teaches in an academic setting then you should go to a place where you know it will be taught correctly.

As for the first part of your response, most undergrads by the end of their Freshman year should have the ability to decide for themselves which courses would benefit their career path without someone having to walk them through it. As an undergrad, I knew my goal and I knew what it would take to reach it. Now even though the Theology program does not require an Ancient language it doesn't mean you should not take it. You must also keep in mind what the career paths of the majority of students. Most are going on to teach in a non-university setting either as teachers, DREs, youth ministers, etc. Now, while a background in an ancient language would be beneficial it may not be necessary. Not many High School Theology teachers or youth ministers are going to need a working knowledge of Hebrew, Greek, or Latin.

[StColette]

May I ask a few questions?

jksoren, if you already had a well paying job why did you not just apply for the FUS MA distance program? Also, if the MA program was so dissatisfying, why did you not quit or apply for a different program at another University? I'm asking honestly and not meaning to be critical. I do have sympathy for you, even though I disagree with almost everything you have said thus far. I'm just trying to understand why you would take such a risk.

[dairygirl4u2c]

[url="http://74.125.93.104/search?q=cache:-rHLGkWZl_0J:www.grossmont.edu/bertdill/docs/CollegeWaste.pdf+%22college+is+a+waste+of+time&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a"]the truth is not always pretty[/url]

[Apotheoun]

Dairygirl,

My computer anti-virus software blocked the link you posted with a warning message saying that visiting that site could damage a person's computer.

God grant you many joyful years,
Todd

[Brother Adam]

It is a link to an article called "College is a waste of time and money" which for many people is very true.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Brother Adam' post='1824505' date='Apr 4 2009, 03:35 PM']It is a link to an article called "College is a waste of time and money" which for many people is very true.[/quote]
True enough.

[N/A Gone]

I am a year into the MA for FUS and I love it. I guess some people have a bad experience and an axe to grind. Whatever helps you sleep.

[Slappo]

[quote name='jksoren' post='1824020' date='Apr 3 2009, 07:12 PM']If you all think that Franciscan taught you ALL that you need to know, and you were so rigorous as to even read beyond the material with all the free-time that you had while taking "graduate" classes, then surely you would easily be able to answer the following objections, intelligently. Can you do it?

Pretend that I am not a believer, I am an earnest truth seeker coming to you for guidance:

“Daniel Dennett wrote that Christians justify their belief in an invisible omnipotent God in a very inconsistent manner. He pointed out that when bad things happen, like hurricanes, that we tend NOT to attribute that event to God's providence because if we did we would have to admit that God was the cause of evil in the world. However, he says, then we do a "ridiculous about-face” and have the audacity to claim that when good things happen to us, like winning a prize, that such an event is directly attributable to God! He argues that this is just one example of how Christians fail to be consistent or rational when it comes to what we profess to believe in. I want to know the truth. Are we just conveniently dreaming up a God to fit our desires!? I want to believe, but if we are “inventing” God based on desire, how can I do so?

Essentially my problem is this, how do I reconcile these two views (to say that God doesn’t do evil and yet to also say that God is still somehow in control of his creation?) so that I can maintain my belief in God's present and loving providence? Am I simply arbitrarily ascribing "divinity" to those things that I subjectively find good? Does God cause hurricanes that kill thousands of people? If he does, why? And how is this compatible with my belief in a Christian God of life and love? Please help!”[/quote]

Since the question is so easy and I am already procrastinating on homework at the moment, I'll answer briefly and without direct references... First of all you point them to St. Thomas Aquinas' works on the nature of evil in order that they get an understanding of what evil is and how it relates to God. Then you take them through the three different wills of God according to St. Augustine, the ordained will, the conditional will, and the permitted will. Then you make the case, with all this information being provided, that God is not the direct cause of evil, and even when His justice calls for bringing forth a natural evil to enact punishment, the natural evil is one of the consequences of a just action by God. Evil's that fit within the realm of natural disaster can either be His permitted will and an act by the ruler of this world, satan, or can be within His conditional will.

You could continue to instruct by saying that God's love is not of our mortal life but our eternal soul and therefore He seeks our sanctification whether it be by earthly goods or earthly trials. We are not Protestants and believe that to be holy is to be rich and prosperous on earth. God is the first cause of all things but not necessarily the direct cause of all things so even hurricanes etc. are caused by God. Natural disaster although it brings about a natural evil can also be occasions of heroic virtue etc etc...

That's run of the mill stuff not even breaking down the argument and answering each question thoroughly. The average FUS Theology BA can answer that. I knew all of that with detailed arguments (actually citing Aquinas and using his argument, able to do the research to pull any other sources I might need/want to use either from the Fathers or other sources) by my Junior year.

Gotta go do hw, girlfriend is on my case now (I need it!).

Don't slight Franciscan so much. Sure there are problems and you can get a degree from the University without trying as many BA students do, but FUS offers the resources necessary to have a well educated undergraduate degree. I think it is pretty well known that FUS isn't the best in graduate studies... at least it is well known among the undergraduates.

[jksoren]

[quote name='Slappo' post='1824591' date='Apr 4 2009, 06:39 PM']Since the question is so easy and I am already procrastinating on homework at the moment, I'll answer briefly and without direct references... First of all you point them to St. Thomas Aquinas' works on the nature of evil in order that they get an understanding of what evil is and how it relates to God. Then you take them through the three different wills of God according to St. Augustine, the ordained will, the conditional will, and the permitted will. Then you make the case, with all this information being provided, that God is not the direct cause of evil, and even when His justice calls for bringing forth a natural evil to enact punishment, the natural evil is one of the consequences of a just action by God. Evil's that fit within the realm of natural disaster can either be His permitted will and an act by the ruler of this world, satan, or can be within His conditional will.

You could continue to instruct by saying that God's love is not of our mortal life but our eternal soul and therefore He seeks our sanctification whether it be by earthly goods or earthly trials. We are not Protestants and believe that to be holy is to be rich and prosperous on earth. God is the first cause of all things but not necessarily the direct cause of all things so even hurricanes etc. are caused by God. Natural disaster although it brings about a natural evil can also be occasions of heroic virtue etc etc...

That's run of the mill stuff not even breaking down the argument and answering each question thoroughly. The average FUS Theology BA can answer that. I knew all of that with detailed arguments (actually citing Aquinas and using his argument, able to do the research to pull any other sources I might need/want to use either from the Fathers or other sources) by my Junior year.

Gotta go do hw, girlfriend is on my case now (I need it!).

Don't slight Franciscan so much. Sure there are problems and you can get a degree from the University without trying as many BA students do, but FUS offers the resources necessary to have a well educated undergraduate degree. I think it is pretty well known that FUS isn't the best in graduate studies... at least it is well known among the undergraduates.[/quote]

That's a great answer!