Chi, Qi, Ki ?

[Ziggamafu]

I think that "chi" was / is biological energy that was perceived as spiritual by the ancient East. Some people may still perceive chi as something supernatural, but that doesn't mean the people who treat it strictly as something natural are involving themselves in the occult. If you would have given somebody a truth serum back in the Middle Ages, it would have been perceived as a magic potion from dark sorcery. Same principle. Many (if not all) things in science were originally perceived as magic back in the day.

Just because we don't understand something does not mean we should fear it or shun it as coming from the devil.

Edited April 3, 2009 by Ziggamafu

[Aloysius]

I don't think it biologically accurate to believe that there is an "energy" within the body corresponding to "chi".

for instance, does energy flow from the thumb to the middle finger when one places them together?

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1823500' date='Apr 3 2009, 02:18 PM']I don't think it biologically accurate to believe that there is an "energy" within the body corresponding to "chi".

for instance, does energy flow from the thumb to the middle finger when one places them together?[/quote]
We do have electricity coursing thru our body and that is certainly energy.

[philothea]

[quote name='Ziggamafu' post='1823495' date='Apr 3 2009, 01:16 PM']I think that "chi" was / is biological energy that was perceived as spiritual by the ancient East. Some people may still perceive chi as something supernatural, but that doesn't mean the people who treat it strictly as something natural are involving themselves in the occult. If you would have given somebody a truth serum back in the Middle Ages, it would have been perceived as a magic potion from dark sorcery. Same principle. Many (if not all) things in science were originally perceived as magic back in the day.

Just because we don't understand something does not mean we should fear it or shun it as coming from the devil.[/quote]
Sure.

But, do you think chi is real, or just a useful idea with no physical reality? We can explain the chemistry behind a modern truth serum, regardless of how people in the past would have regarded it. I'm not seeing that with chi.

(I admit that I'm getting hung up on people throwing the term "energy" around, because in physics that has a very specific meaning.)

[MissyP89]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1823274' date='Apr 3 2009, 06:14 AM']Oh my goodness.

Energy is the BODY'S ENERGY. It is NOT THE SOUL. How can you say something God made in our bodies is not compatible with the Faith? What are you talking about???[/quote]

I practiced qi gong for a few years, and chi was always defined to me as life energy. What gives us life if not the soul? Like others said above, if you're speaking of biological energy, that is something different (and, as you said, God-given). What I'm speaking against is the belief that chi is the source of our life--this is incorrect.

ETA:

[quote name='Ziggamafu']I think that "chi" was / is biological energy that was perceived as spiritual by the ancient East. [b]Some people may still perceive chi as something supernatural...[/b][/quote]

Indeed. That's how I was taught to perceive it.

Edited April 3, 2009 by MissyP89

[Aloysius]

if Chi is defined as your LIFE ENERGY, then we're talking about your SOUL.

the electrical impulses of the body are tied through the central nervous system and send information about what your senses are perceiving, they are not a flowing stream of energy, [b]that's bad science. [/b]

the electrical field produced by your body is a very simple ELF (extremely low frequency) electromagnetic field.... its discernible effects on the world are limited to shocking people with static electricity. it is there because electrons are loose in molecules, which is why all matter has a type of ELF electromagnetic field. electromagnetic fields are not part of life energy, they are byproducts of all matter, and specially active matter will likely have more of them (ie either electrical devices or living organisms with central nervous systems). electromagnetic fields are not life energies, [b]that'd be bad psuedo science.[/b]

and your soul (principal of life, life energy) is not a flowing stream of energy through your body either, [b]that's bad spirituality.[/b]

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1823273' date='Apr 3 2009, 05:12 AM']I'm talking about energy. Please, if you don't know what it means to have energy please consult a medical encyclopedia.

This is basic Human Makeup 101. I don't know why it's being questioned as to whether energy (chi) is contradictory to the Faith and why anyone would need to explain about energy. Is breath contradictory to the Faith? Do I need to explain what breath is? Energy is as basic to the body as breath is. And God made energy.

Chi actually more specifically refers to the FLOW of energy more so than just energy itself.[/quote]
I'm not entirely sure if we're all on the same page.

The scientific 'energy' that our bodies make use of is chemical energy in the form of carbohydrates and lipids which are converted to adenosine triphosphate. If I remember my Bio from last year properly.
I think that the "chi" energy that we are talking about has a more 'spiritual' nature to it. A sort of Eastern spirituality form of psychokinesis.

So if we're talking about the body's use of chemical energy, then this is purely chemical energy being changed into kinetic energy which causes our body to move, and allows cells to carry out metabolic processes. If we're talking about a spiritual, soul energy, then this is quite different, and I would agree that it borders on being contrary to Church teaching.

[Ziggamafu]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1823584' date='Apr 3 2009, 01:53 PM']if Chi is defined as your LIFE ENERGY, then we're talking about your SOUL.

the electrical impulses of the body are tied through the central nervous system and send information about what your senses are perceiving, they are not a flowing stream of energy, [b]that's bad science. [/b]

the electrical field produced by your body is a very simple ELF (extremely low frequency) electromagnetic field.... its discernible effects on the world are limited to shocking people with static electricity. it is there because electrons are loose in molecules, which is why all matter has a type of ELF electromagnetic field. electromagnetic fields are not part of life energy, they are byproducts of all matter, and specially active matter will likely have more of them (ie either electrical devices or living organisms with central nervous systems). electromagnetic fields are not life energies, [b]that'd be bad psuedo science.[/b]

and your soul (principal of life, life energy) is not a flowing stream of energy through your body either, [b]that's bad spirituality.[/b][/quote]


Hmm. I may just concede to you, then. All I have to go on is my own, very limited, very infantile understanding of human biology / neurology.

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1823653' date='Apr 3 2009, 05:15 PM']I'm not entirely sure if we're all on the same page.

The scientific 'energy' that our bodies make use of is chemical energy in the form of carbohydrates and lipids which are converted to adenosine triphosphate. If I remember my Bio from last year properly.
I think that the "chi" energy that we are talking about has a more 'spiritual' nature to it. A sort of Eastern spirituality form of psychokinesis.

So if we're talking about the body's use of chemical energy, then this is purely chemical energy being changed into kinetic energy which causes our body to move, and allows cells to carry out metabolic processes. If we're talking about a spiritual, soul energy, then this is quite different, and I would agree that it borders on being contrary to Church teaching.[/quote]


You're wrong and most of you posting in this thread are going way over-board. It's like you see sin and "opposed to Church teaching" in EVERYTHING. Chi is ENERGY FLOW. I don't know who said it was LIFE FORCE, but this isn't Star Wars and no Jedis are here.

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1823584' date='Apr 3 2009, 03:53 PM']if Chi is defined as your LIFE ENERGY,[/quote]


Who said it was? Or did you just decide that's your interpretation of our discussion? Chi is not life force. It is energy flow. Plain and simple. There is no great mystery here. No pagan goings on. For goodness sake, do you look for sinfulness?? I wonder because you seem to find it nearly everywhere.

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1823500' date='Apr 3 2009, 02:18 PM']I don't think it biologically accurate to believe that there is an "energy" within the body corresponding to "chi".[/quote]

But you're sometimes wrong--by your own admittance, right? Or do you really not mean that when you say it, rather you just say it because you think you should?

It's hilarious to me that you're going to try to deny energy in the human body on religious grounds!!!! Are you going to post an excerpt from a Papal document to support that now?

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='philothea' post='1823494' date='Apr 3 2009, 02:14 PM']From the AMA Medical Encyclopedia entry [b]Energy[/b]:

[indent]The calories provided by food used for the body's growth, tissue repair, and physical activity. In nutrition, calories represent the amount of energy contained in foods or the amount of energy expended by a person. To maintain a constant weight, the amount of energy or calories supplied by the diet should not exceed the amount of energy a person expends [see CALORIE REQUIREMENTS]. Growth and recovery from injury, illness or surgery increase an individual's energy requirements. Carbohydrates and fats are the body's main sources of energy. Excess energy is stored in the body as fat.
[/indent]
So, you're talking about fat? [/quote]


This is nonsensical, truly and entirely. I. can. not. believe. you all are attempting to engage in an argument about ENERGY IN THE HUMAN BODY.

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1823441' date='Apr 3 2009, 01:23 PM']Chi is not a new age concept, and it does refer to biological energy which we have yet to understand. Tai Chi - the exercises - have shown positive health effects:
[url="http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/03/080331220843.htm"]http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/...80331220843.htm[/url]

[url="http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/03/070323105002.htm"]http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/...70323105002.htm[/url]

[url="http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/06/080620195434.htm"]http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/...80620195434.htm[/url]

[url="http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/01/070123143544.htm"]http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/...70123143544.htm[/url][/quote]


Ahhhhhhhhhhh, the voice of reason. How sweet it sounds.

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1823470' date='Apr 3 2009, 01:58 PM']I am not necessarily saying not to practice things like Tai Chi, I am saying to be careful about discussing energy within one's body in a quasi-spiritual way,[/quote]

NOBODY WAS!!!!!!!!!!!!

[philothea]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1824018' date='Apr 3 2009, 10:11 PM']You're wrong and most of you posting in this thread are going way over-board. It's like you see sin and "opposed to Church teaching" in EVERYTHING. Chi is ENERGY FLOW. I don't know who said it was LIFE FORCE, but this isn't Star Wars and no Jedis are here.[/quote]

Okay, so chi is "energy flow" in a living body. Is there any way to define it either scientifically or in terms of Christian thought? Or is it solely an Eastern metaphysical concept?