Dangerous Hobbies

[Sojourner]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1820745' date='Mar 30 2009, 08:48 PM']I'm sure there will be some lawsuits over this, but at what point is someone a victim of circumstances beyond their control, or acting irresponsibly, or just not knowing enough about what they are doing? I realize that you can die walking across the street, believe me, I am a pedestrian here. I do however wait for the Walk sign.[/quote]
Sometimes I wonder whether the safeguards society puts in place have the opposite of the intended effect. Because skiing is generally a safe activity, if you follow all the rules, you forget that there are very real dangers if you [i]don't[/i] follow the rules. And sometimes even when you don't follow the rules things go OK, which lead us to believe the rules are made for everyone else -- all those people who aren't invincible, like we are. We live in the belief that bad stuff won't happen to us, until it does happen to us. It's a kind of naivete. Usually it's an OK attitude, but sometimes it gets us in trouble. It's a form of hubris, of unfounded overconfidence.

Edited March 31, 2009 by Terra Firma

[CatherineM]

[quote name='Terra Firma' post='1820793' date='Mar 30 2009, 09:42 PM']Sometimes I wonder whether the safeguards society puts in place have the opposite of the intended effect. Because skiing is generally a safe activity, if you follow all the rules, you forget that there are very real dangers if you [i]don't[/i] follow the rules. And sometimes even when you don't follow the rules things go OK, which lead us to believe the rules are made for everyone else -- all those people who aren't invincible, like we are. We live in the belief that bad stuff won't happen to us, until it does happen to us. It's a kind of naivete. Usually it's an OK attitude, but sometimes it gets us in trouble. It's a form of hubris, of unfounded overconfidence.[/quote]

You are definitely describing me when I was a teenager and young adult. I can trace every scar that should have made it clear to me that I wasn't indestructible.

[scardella]

[quote name='Terra Firma' post='1820559' date='Mar 30 2009, 05:18 PM']I get where you're coming from. I think there is room for "stretching yourself" and engaging in pursuits that have an increased risk of danger. But, I think such risks should not be undertaken lightly, just for the sake of being "manly." A real man doesn't value personal growth and adrenaline highs over the well-being and safety of his family. A real man knows his own worth, and realizes that he has value not only for his own sake but also for the sake of his wife and family.

That's not to say men (and women, for that matter) can't still engage in adventures, or in risky behaviors. But it does mean we show consideration and deference to those we love, and we subjugate our desires for those of the people we love when we need to.[/quote]

There's a balance to be had.

If you want to kill a man's heart, and he's passionate about some activity, be it fishing, riding motorcycles, etc., say, "If you really loved me, you would give up ..." that activity. Men today are far too often emasculated by their wives' good intentions. They either reject the woman, or allow themselves to become a working stiff. When a man kills his heart, he becomes lifeless.

[The Bus Station]

[quote name='eagle_eye222001' post='1820562' date='Mar 30 2009, 05:21 PM']Chess is a very dangerous game[/quote]

iawtc.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='scardella' post='1821170' date='Mar 31 2009, 04:34 PM']There's a balance to be had.

If you want to kill a man's heart, and he's passionate about some activity, be it fishing, riding motorcycles, etc., say, "If you really loved me, you would give up ..." that activity. Men today are far too often emasculated by their wives' good intentions. They either reject the woman, or allow themselves to become a working stiff. When a man kills his heart, he becomes lifeless.[/quote]

Not sure I agree with this because it can come off as a double standard. If the husband asked the wife to stop a certain activity and had good reason to ask her, she would have to submit to his will for the good of the family, right? But if the wife approaches the husband and asks him to please stop a certain activity (again, with good reason), the husband can pull out the "that would emasculate me" argument?

[Jesus_lol]

well, like what? cheating? not really the same.

the whole marrying someone you know loves motorcycles(or whatever) and then pulling the "if you loved me, you would change this..." is pretty much idiotic. either you kill the person you fell in love with,make them miserable to be around you, or they smarten up and dump you.

its like moving next to a farm then complaining of the chickens noise.

[txdinghysailor]

[quote name='Lilllabettt' post='1820726' date='Mar 30 2009, 10:28 PM']Somewhere in the course of my formation in religious life, I was taught that taking extraordinary, unnecessary risks with one's life is a sin, regardless if one is married or not. It's breaking the fifth commandment. The gift of life is holy and its not okay to put it in a high risk situation just to have fun or try something new or crazy. The context was in reference to extreme sports and bungee jumping. I don't know certain kinds of skiing would fall into that ... I guess so.[/quote]

But what is an extraordinary risk? Honestly, more people die in car accidents every day than die from bungee jumping accidents every YEAR.

[Sojourner]

[quote name='txdinghysailor' post='1821388' date='Mar 31 2009, 07:22 PM']But what is an extraordinary risk? Honestly, more people die in car accidents every day than die from bungee jumping accidents every YEAR.[/quote]
An extraordinary risk is one that is something outside the bounds of ordinary risk. Driving a car is considered an ordinary risk, unless you have a condition that makes it risky for you to drive, such as poor eyesight or seizures. Bungee jumping is not an ordinary risk. People do it, yes, and it can be done safely, but it is still not so common as to be considered "ordinary."

Part of what makes a risk ordinary or extraordinary is the benefit to be gained from the risk. There are benefits from driving, such as being able to get to work or school, go to the grocery, etc. The benefits from bungee jumping are the adrenaline high you'd get from doing it. The benefits of driving typically are thought to outweigh the risks, thereby making the activity one which carries an acceptable level of risk. Bungee jumping, not so much.

[Lilllabettt]

[quote name='txdinghysailor' post='1821388' date='Mar 31 2009, 10:22 PM']But what is an extraordinary risk? Honestly, more people die in car accidents every day than die from bungee jumping accidents every YEAR.[/quote]


Okay ... the point is, probably most of the people who died driving were not doing it just because they got a "thrill" from it. They were probably going to work, taking kids to school, accessing health care or friends or family. Even the people who were just taking a pleasure drive were not intending to risk their lives by doing it. They were not thinking as they were driving along: "This is scary! I could get hurt doing this! Woohoo!"

People get thrills from extreme anything. The question is, where is that thrill coming from? Is it the thrill of cheating death? I think for some people, it is. The risk of getting hurt or killed is part of what makes it fun for them. And that is breaking the 5th commandment.

[txdinghysailor]

[quote name='Lilllabettt' post='1821447' date='Mar 31 2009, 11:04 PM']People get thrills from extreme anything. The question is, where is that thrill coming from? Is it the thrill of cheating death? I think for some people, it is. The risk of getting hurt or killed is part of what makes it fun for them. And that is breaking the 5th commandment.[/quote]

Oops... Guess I've broken the 5th without realizing it... I'll prolly keep breaking it too. It's tons of fun...

[CatherineM]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' post='1821381' date='Mar 31 2009, 08:17 PM']well, like what? cheating? not really the same.

the whole marrying someone you know loves motorcycles(or whatever) and then pulling the "if you loved me, you would change this..." is pretty much idiotic. either you kill the person you fell in love with,make them miserable to be around you, or they smarten up and dump you.

its like moving next to a farm then complaining of the chickens noise.[/quote]

My husband and I make concessions to each other out of love. Doing them or not doing them doesn't make either one of us miserable. One of my most favorite pastimes before marrying was target shooting. I could have imported my rifle when I came North, but my husband was afraid to have it in the house. He has a serious mental illness, and was afraid that if he had a psychotic episode, he might use it violently. He hasn't had a psychotic break in 17 years, so I wasn't really worried about it. I miss shooting very much, but my husband's peace of mind was more important in the scheme of things that really matter. He also asked me to grow my hair long. I don't really like long hair because I'm always in the swimming pool, but I have adjusted. And yes, he made just as many concessions to me.

[Lilllabettt]

[quote name='txdinghysailor' post='1821454' date='Mar 31 2009, 11:21 PM']Oops... Guess I've broken the 5th without realizing it... I'll prolly keep breaking it too. It's tons of fun...[/quote]


Okaaayyyy

[Sojourner]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1821460' date='Mar 31 2009, 08:24 PM']My husband and I make concessions to each other out of love. Doing them or not doing them doesn't make either one of us miserable. One of my most favorite pastimes before marrying was target shooting. I could have imported my rifle when I came North, but my husband was afraid to have it in the house. He has a serious mental illness, and was afraid that if he had a psychotic episode, he might use it violently. He hasn't had a psychotic break in 17 years, so I wasn't really worried about it. I miss shooting very much, but my husband's peace of mind was more important in the scheme of things that really matter. He also asked me to grow my hair long. I don't really like long hair because I'm always in the swimming pool, but I have adjusted. And yes, he made just as many concessions to me.[/quote]
My husband and I have made similar concessions (including the long hair one). Neither of us has asked the other to give up anything essential to our enjoyment of life; we just make accommodations so we are able to enjoy each other more fully and live more comfortably together.

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Terra Firma' post='1820491' date='Mar 30 2009, 03:32 PM']I don't want to cause him pain, so I try hard to be safer when I drive or engage in activities.[/quote]

So, you no longer merge into lanes of traffic where there is already a vehicle?


[quote name='scardella' post='1820501' date='Mar 30 2009, 03:41 PM']As a side note which may provide some perspective: yesterday, I got into an auto accident because of a sudden bout of hail (ball bearings made of ice). Fishtailing at 65mph is scary stuff. I was saved from a 50+ foot drop by prudent driving and a well-placed guardrail. However, I don't for a moment want to suggest lowering speed limits, adding mandatory safety features, etc. In fact, I feel like my responses to the sudden loss of control was one of my manliest moments.[/quote]

Wow... really? It's really irresponsible to be driving 65 mph in ball bearing-sized hail. There are laws about adapting your speed to the weather conditions, you know.


[quote name='Terra Firma' post='1821435' date='Mar 31 2009, 09:55 PM']An extraordinary risk is one that is something outside the bounds of ordinary risk. Driving a car is considered an ordinary risk, unless you have a condition that makes it risky for you to drive, such as poor eyesight or seizures. Bungee jumping is not an ordinary risk. People do it, yes, and it can be done safely, but it is still not so common as to be considered "ordinary."

Part of what makes a risk ordinary or extraordinary is the benefit to be gained from the risk. There are benefits from driving, such as being able to get to work or school, go to the grocery, etc. The benefits from bungee jumping are the adrenaline high you'd get from doing it. The benefits of driving typically are thought to outweigh the risks, thereby making the activity one which carries an acceptable level of risk. Bungee jumping, not so much.[/quote]

Are you a lawyer?

[scardella]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' post='1821717' date='Apr 1 2009, 08:23 AM']Wow... really? It's really irresponsible to be driving 65 mph in ball bearing-sized hail. There are laws about adapting your speed to the weather conditions, you know.[/quote]

I was not driving irresponsibly. I was driving cross-country. The hail came on suddenly and my car lost control within the first 30 seconds of it. It was unexpected. Before that, there was only a light rain, for which my speed was quite conservative. I was already going 5-10 mph slower than the cars around me before my car lost control.

As much as I love to drive fast, I'm an absolute stickler for driving within the bounds of safety, particularly when the weather is bad.

If there's ANY fault to be had, it's that I'm from the south and don't have the same experience with winter weather.

Edited April 1, 2009 by scardella