I Suspect It Is Really Simple, No Third Temple, No Messiah!

[Aloysius]

The Davidic covenant is fulfilled. Its fulfillment is the Church. There is now neither Jew nor gentile, for all are one in Christ Jesus.

The Church is the new Israel, to whom all the promises of the covenant belong. The people of the Old Covenant are invited to be full members of this Church and receive all the promises that were promised to their forefathers, equally with all races who have been let in to the covenant.

Christ's parables on this issue could not have been much more clear. Many will come from the east and west and find the bosom of Abraham, but many of Abraham's own children will find themselves outside where there is wailing and gnashing of teeth, because when the Messiah came they did not recognize him. When God allowed the temple to be destroyed instead of joining the re-built temple wherein was offered accross the whole world the unbloody sacrifice that made all other sacrifices obsolete, that temple that Christ had built upon Peter, many Jews chose instead to create a new religion. that religion is not the proper continuation of the Old Testament, and while it continues many practices of the Old Testament, those practices were all instituted by God to foreshadow Christ and are therefore obsolete.

all of this talk about there being a separate covenant for the Jewish people is absolutely a heresy against Christianity itself; it's antithetical to Christianity's foundations. the point is that in the First Century A.D., Christ came and He preached and He died and He rose. His Church proclaimed that His sacrifice had fulfilled all need for sacrifice to attone for sin, such that there should be no more animal sacrifices. God permitted the temple to be destroyed to solidify the fact that the religion of the Old Testament could no longer be practiced (same reason the Temple veil was split when Christ died). Two religions formed after this to answer this question, and only one of those religions can be the true continuation of the Old Testament Religion. One of them was formed at Pentecost and actually predicted the temple destruction and offered as the solution that the Church of Christ was the new Israel, the new Davidic Kingdom. The other was formed at the Council of Jamnia after the destruction of the temple, in which the religion of Rabbinic Judaism was invented. That is the religion that is today called Judaism, but the Christian position is that the proper continuation of the Old Testament was not Rabbinic Judaism, it was Christianity.

[Aloysius]

Marie-Therese, though this thread was necromanced and thus I am responding to you years after your post, actually NO, people of Jewish ancestry are NOT bound by the law of the Old Covenant. Jews who are also Christians (and Catholics specifically, because there are protestant forms of Christianity that fall into the "Judaizing" heresy that requires certain aspects of the Old Covenant to be followed) may choose to practice them culturally, so long as they recognize how they are pre-figurements of Christ and do not put their hope of salvation in them.

St. Paul's letters regarding the Law and the purpose of the Law, I'm thinking probably of Romans specifically, should be clear enough to show that none are under the prescripts of the Old Law anymore. Christ followed every letter so as to completely fulfill the Law, and by satisfying it He freed all men to live under the Law of Grace. Also a few Councils have dealt with this, the Council of Florence has very harsh words against anyone who would require things of the Old Covenant or who would put their hope in them for salvation. indeed, to put one's hope in fulfilling the law of Moses is to ignore how Christ fulfilled it for us. obviously, the moral precepts inherent to the Old Covenant remain valid, but all sacrifice and ritual is fulfilled in the great sacrifice and its unbloody re-presentation from East to West as prophesied by the Prophet Malachi. Christ's fulfillment of the law is absolute and for all people, there is no Jew or Gentile for all are one in Christ Jesus. no race is higher than any other race in the new Davidic Kingdom with Jesus as the King, the Jewish people have had a significant role in salvation history, but the main point of that role was to bring salvation to all people. and they did through Jesus, but then many of they themselves rebelled against the fulfillment of the whole law and the prophets.

[Dennis Tate]

A man from Uganda recently wrote an interesting article on this subject that makes a lot of sense to me!


[quote]
[url="http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1543676213"][color="#3b5998"]Eporu Ronald Alfred[/color][/url]

Kakira Deliverance Church,
P.O. Box 3191, Kakira, Jinja, Uganda

......

Dear brethren,
I salute you in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ!

RE: SHARING NEW DISCOVERIES OF THE TRUTH IN BIBLE PROPHECY CONCERNING THE IMMINENT HEALING AND UNITY OF THE CHURCH

I am mesmerized by the truth in bible prophecy that the Spirit of God has been revealing over the recent years. Secret things belong to God and those that are revealed belong to us and our children... (Deut 29: 29).

1. King Cyrus the great ruled his country 555 years Before Christ i.e. from 576 BC to 530 BC and authorised the rebuilding of the second temple in Jerusalem. Cyrus of the Old Testament is hence associated with the number 555 and is the shadow figure of incoming Cyrus II of the New Testament. You may learn more about his history from the internet and scriptures. [b]This new truth enables us to identify the leadership of the world that will rebuild the temple in Jerusalem as prophesied in book of Isaiah before the rise of antichrist. Cyrus II is coming to revive the evangelical/Pentecostal church in Jerusalem and restore the headquarters of the church in same city where the church was born. He is set to strip Babylon of the vessels of the temple and the name of the Lord God and transfer that crown back to Jerusalem thus leaving Babylon naked. Cyrus will rebuild the temple in Jerusalem in fulfilment of the prophecy of Jesus as written in the book of John 2:18-23 and the prophecy of Isaiah as written in chapters 40, 41, 45 and 47 of the book of Isaiah. Jesus regarded the temple as the symbol of his own body while saying that he had the power to lay it down on the first day (1st millennium) and rebuild or raise it up on the 3rd day (3rd millennium). Remember that one day in the eyes of God is the same as one thousand years (millennium) as stated in book of 2 Peter 3:8. Rebuilding of the temple is thus associated with unification of the church.
Cyrus II will rebuild the temple in honour of our lord Jesus Christ. The temple will be the unifying (rallying) point of the world wide evangelical church as the original headquarters of the church. Psalms133 denotes that there is such a powerful anointing that comes along with unity among brethren. Unification of the whole body of Jesus Christ will make the church so powerful that she will overrun the world within a short time before the return of our lord Jesus Christ. A divided church is a powerless church whereas a united church is a powerful church. [/b]The church can only be able to fulfil her ultimate mission of revealing Jesus to the world once we get united as one body of Jesus Christ following his last prayer for his disciples as written in John 17:20-23.
Cyrus II will erase that false image of Jesus that the counterfeit and Idolatrous state church of Babylon has been projecting around the world and revive the original church that projects the true brilliant image of Jesus Christ. Haggai 2:9 says that the glory of the latter church (temple) will be greater than the glory of the former church (temple).The rise of Cyrus will also usher in the ultimate fulfilment of the prophecy of Joel 2:28 where God intends to pour out His Spirit on all flesh in these last days. The era of Cyrus brings the gentile period of grace to its close and leads to the restoration of the Jewish period of grace and salvation.




2. King Manasseh was the shadow figure (forerunner) of the antichrist in the Old Testament who ruled over Jerusalem exactly 666 years Before Christ i.e. from 697 BC to 642 BC. (2 chronicle 33: 1-2 and 2 kings 21: 1-17). Antichrist is associated with the number 666 as written in the book of Revelation 13:18. Manasseh was the most evil king to have ever ruled over the city of Jerusalem and kingdom of Judah.
Manasseh is reported to have killed so many innocent people in Jerusalem that the streets of Jerusalem were flowing with blood; he worshiped pagan idols and stars; he built pagan alters for idols and stars in the very courtyards of the temple; he sacrificed his sons to idols; he consulted diviners and mediums; he even set up an abominable pagan image at the temple that causes desolation just as the incoming antichrist will do. It was on that basis that God decided to have that first temple destroyed completely since Manasseh had desecrated it.



3. Prophet Jonah was the shadow figure (forerunner) of Jesus Christ in the Old Testament who undertook his prophetic ministry around 777 B.C. Prophet Jonah is hence associated with the number 777. He arose from the shadow and demise of Prophet Elisha. His preaching radiated such great power and authority that turned the city of Nineveh as the rising super power of that time up side down within 3 days only (read the book of Jonah). Jonah was the prophetic force behind the restoration of the lost territories of Israel in the reign of King Jeroboam II of Israel between 782 BC and 741 BC as written in II Kings 14:25. Jonah related with God more or less as his own father and God loved him more or less as His own son. He volunteered to die save occupants of the ship and was raised to life after three days just like Jesus Christ. Jesus compared himself with Jonah as his forerunner in the Old Testament as far as his earthly ministry, death and resurrection was concerned in Mathew 12; 38-41, Luke 11; 29-32. Jesus will also oversee the restoration of the lost territories of Israel just like prophet Jonah when he comes to rule as the king of kings and Lord of Lords. We can therefore correctly associate Jesus Christ with the number 777 just like Jonah as our commander-in-chief, Lord of the Sabbath and fountain of life.

The more we know where we came from the more we know where we are going. You are cordially invited to visit my face book home page for more information and messages. Feel free to share this truth with other brethren just as I received it free of charge from God.

Your brother in Christ

Eporu Ronald
Scientist & Minister of Bible Prophecy
[/quote]

[Dennis Tate]

[quote name='Aloysius' timestamp='1327778398' post='2376600']
The Davidic covenant is fulfilled. Its fulfillment is the Church. There is now neither Jew nor gentile, for all are one in Christ Jesus.

The Church is the new Israel, to whom all the promises of the covenant belong. The people of the Old Covenant are invited to be full members of this Church and receive all the promises that were promised to their forefathers, equally with all races who have been let in to the covenant.

Christ's parables on this issue could not have been much more clear. Many will come from the east and west and find the bosom of Abraham, but many of Abraham's own children will find themselves outside where there is wailing and gnashing of teeth, because when the Messiah came they did not recognize him. When God allowed the temple to be destroyed instead of joining the re-built temple wherein was offered accross the whole world the unbloody sacrifice that made all other sacrifices obsolete, that temple that Christ had built upon Peter, many Jews chose instead to create a new religion. that religion is not the proper continuation of the Old Testament, and while it continues many practices of the Old Testament, those practices were all instituted by God to foreshadow Christ and are therefore obsolete.

all of this talk about there being a separate covenant for the Jewish people is absolutely a heresy against Christianity itself; it's antithetical to Christianity's foundations. .......
[/quote]



As the church becomes less and less anti-Semitic and gains a new found respect for all aspects of Judaism a whole new level of validity will come to the idea of the followers of God loving each other!

OK, Aloysius...what do you think about the idea of testing this theory that the Davidic and Levitical Covenant have no more validity?

What about allowing the Levites and the newly formed Sanhedrin to do all aspects of that ritual that Mr. Boruch Fishman mentioned that is designed to restore rain in due season?

Allowing them to perform this ritual in a sense would be a test to see if it works or not....if it does indeed work then this would be evidence that we Christians may need to rethink our position as to how Ezekiel chapters 40 to 48 should be understood as merely being a metaphor of some type!?

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Dennis Tate' timestamp='1327777156' post='2376581']
Do you think that the spending of $30 billion or so by us Canadians at "Christmas" time is less of a vain sacrifice???!!!
[/quote]

Just so you're not left waiting, Rexi is probably never going to reply. He doesn't post here anymore.

[Aloysius]

Thou shalt not put the Lord thy God to the test (with a few obvious exceptions that occurred in Old Testament times, wherein God permitted His power to be known through such "contests" against pagans).

It is not about who can make the rain come... or who can bring fire down from heaven. For Christ warned us that in the end times, false prophets will arise who will be able to do just those things. no, it's not about being able to do such things, the power of a covenant is a power to SAVE.

it is not anti-semitic to hold that the Church is the New Israel. I have respect for the cultural heritage of the Jewish people. but when asked "which religion has the power to save men from their sins?" my answer is unequivicobly "Christianity, and NOT Judaism or Islam or Hinduism or any other religion"

will sacrificing a goat in the temple bring you forgiveness of your sins, Mr. Tate? I say to you that it will not! Nor will it redeem the sins of any Jewish person. the only thing that forgives the sins of man is the sacrifice of Calvary. all sacrifices are fulfilled in that one ultimate sacrifice.

[Dennis Tate]

Over these past months a rather intriguing idea has crossed my mind. Is King David raised up for the Jewish people a significant amount of time previous to when the feet of Messiah stand on the Mt. of Olives in fulfillment of Zechariah chapter 14?

It is pretty obvious that Jesus/Yahushua expects us to believe in the specific fulfillment of the words of the prophets.

//Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:// (Luke 24:25)

//But they shall serve the LORD their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them.// (Jeremiah 30:9)

It is relevant that Jesus/Yahushua clearly identified John the Baptist as a modern Elijah for his time period.

//And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?
And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not,....
Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist. // (Matthew 17:10-13)

Isaiah speaks about a King Cyrus type of person who was instrumental in assisting the Jewish people to rebuild the second temple to which Jesus/Yahushua came. King Cyrus was a gentile or possibly a member of the lost tribes of Israel, and did not actually know the God of Abraham very well at all.

//Thus saith the LORD to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut;
I will go before thee, and make the crooked places straight: I will break in pieces the gates of brass, and cut in sunder the bars of iron:
And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, the LORD, which call [thee] by thy name, [am] the God of Israel.
For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me. I [am] the LORD, and [there is] none else, [there is] no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: .// (Isaiah 45:1-5)

Although this King Cyrus person sounds somewhat like Jesus/Yahushua in some important ways the fact that it is mentioned that this person does not know God, proves to me that this is not Rabbi Jesus/Yahushua who in my opinion knew HaShem better than anybody else ever did.

Edited January 28, 2012 by Dennis Tate

[Dennis Tate]

[quote name='Aloysius' timestamp='1327782095' post='2376632']
Thou shalt not put the Lord thy God to the test (with a few obvious exceptions that occurred in Old Testament times, wherein God permitted His power to be known through such "contests" against pagans).

It is not about who can make the rain come... or who can bring fire down from heaven. For Christ warned us that in the end times, false prophets will arise who will be able to do just those things. no, it's not about being able to do such things, the power of a covenant is a power to SAVE.
........

will sacrificing a goat in the temple bring you forgiveness of your sins, Mr. Tate? I say to you that it will not! Nor will it redeem the sins of any Jewish person. the only thing that forgives the sins of man is the sacrifice of Calvary. all sacrifices are fulfilled in that one ultimate sacrifice.
[/quote]


These are valid points Aloysius..... but by this will all men know that you are my disciples if you love each other!

Who was he talking to?

Mostly to Jewish disciples of his but of course he knew that soon there would be more Gentiles in the church than Jews so this command to love each other as a sign that we are his genuine followers would become all the more difficult as huge cultural differences came into the church. If we take a serious look at church history in relation to how we treated the Jewish people we will tend to go through some times of serious disillusionment with our religion... Gracias a Dios that it is predicted that finally in the latter days we would understand the plan of God fully and perfectly! I think that is Jeremiah chapter 23.

[Aloysius]

There has indeed been times when Christians and Jews have been bad to each other over history, and that is indeed regrettable. In some ways it stems from the fact that our two religions are, by their foundations, competing for the spot of the continuation of the Old Testament Religion. only one can be true, either Christ came and fulfilled and made anew, or He didn't. Either Christ destroyed the Temple and built it back up in three days, or He didn't. Christianity proclaims that He did. This "3rd temple" that you seek is the Church, and indeed the Messiah will return to the Church in the fullness of its construction, as we reach the ends of the earth with the Gospel and the unbloody sacrifice of the Eucharist of Christ.

As for the tragic history of Jewish-Christian relations... Prior to Constantine, the Jews actually persecuted Christians. Saul of Tarsus (who became St. Paul when Christ knocked him off his horse and asked why he was persecuting Him) was not alone in the mistreatment of Christians (Hebrew and Gentile Christians alike). At various times over the subsequent history of the Church Christians sometimes persecuted Jewish people... though at other times they were not. indeed, many were able to grow wealthy in the Middle Ages because the Church forbade its members to practice usury (strictly defined back then as any interest-bearing loans, I believe it should be more strictly defined today as well but that is a whole other discussion). but yes very often it would go back to persecution. it's a dreadful and tragic history that is not good. it is great that today we have peaceful and respectful dialogue and understanding, and how we can look at Rabbinic Judaism for some clues as to how Old Testament Judaism was practiced (though they are not the same religion, so we must not fall into the trap of thinking that Old Testament Hebrews practicfed the same religion that we call "Judaism" today, there are two millenia of developments that should not be glossed over) and thus learn more about the way Christ was prefigured.

but none of this guilt peddling should shy us away from the Truth, that we proclaim Christ crucified to gentile and Jew equally, that we offer salvation to the Jews by way of the Messiah that came and was not recognized among them--Jesus, the new Davidic King of the Perpetual Davidic Kingdom that was promised to the heirs of Abraham. They are biological heirs of Abraham, we are spiritual heirs of Abraham, and we are all connected in ONE covenant of salvation. it came first to the Jews, but the covenant is now open to Jew and Gentile without distinction. we offer them a new temple: the Church. we offer them a once-and-for-all sacrifice: Jesus Christ. that is the temple and that is the sacrifice that ought to be built up among the Jewish people, and among all people.

Edited January 28, 2012 by Aloysius

[Dennis Tate]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' timestamp='1327779787' post='2376612']
Just so you're not left waiting, Rexi is probably never going to reply. He doesn't post here anymore.
[/quote]

Thank you HomeSchoolMom, by the way I did a terrible job of writing the title of this thread! I should have specified that we are probably delaying the coming of the Messiah/Moshiach if we do not support the Jewish people in their duty to fulfill the words of the Prophet Ezekiel and construct their Jerusalem Third Temple! We do have a Messiah but I believe that once Jews and Christians and Moslems have came to a whole new level of mutual understanding and respect we will be much closer to the ushering in of the full fledged era of Moshiach where even the nature of animals will change and war will become something for the history books!

[Dennis Tate]

[quote name='Aloysius' timestamp='1327783877' post='2376645']
There has indeed been times when Christians and Jews have been bad to each other over history, and that is indeed regrettable. In some ways it stems from the fact that our two religions are, by their foundations, competing for the spot of the continuation of the Old Testament Religion. only one can be true, either Christ came and fulfilled and made anew, or He didn't. Either Christ destroyed the Temple and built it back up in three days, or He didn't. Christianity proclaims that He did. This "3rd temple" that you seek is the Church, and indeed the Messiah will return to the Church in the fullness of its construction, as we reach the ends of the earth with the Gospel and the unbloody sacrifice of the Eucharist of Christ.

.......
but none of this guilt peddling should shy us away from the Truth, that we proclaim Christ crucified to gentile and Jew equally, that we offer salvation to the Jews by way of the Messiah that came and was not recognized among them--Jesus, the new Davidic King of the Perpetual Davidic Kingdom that was promised to the heirs of Abraham. They are biological heirs of Abraham, we are spiritual heirs of Abraham, and we are all connected in ONE covenant of salvation. it came first to the Jews, but the covenant is now open to Jew and Gentile without distinction. we offer them a new temple: the Church. we offer them a once-and-for-all sacrifice: Jesus Christ. that is the temple and that is the sacrifice that ought to be built up among the Jewish people, and among all people.
[/quote]


Shalom Aloysius: Sir, you are a very good writer and debater!

I suspect though that you are somewhat like me in that ten or fifteen years after you decimate an opponent in a debate the Creator will fill you in on information that you just did not know in the past and you look back and say to yourself something to the effect.. "Hey...that guy was actually onto something important but I shot them down as if they were 100% wrong!!!????"

I have made that same mistake myself. I used to debate the subject of life after death from a sola scritura viewpoint and it seems as if I won the debates...but as of 1990 I found out that I almost certainly was thoroughly in error on that subject!

On that note I wish to do my best to pass on the humble apologies of Mr. Herbert Armstrong and his son Garner Ted for making fun of Christians who believed in an all too real heaven and hell. Mr. Herbert Armstrong and his son popularized the soul sleep idea to many such as myself but both of these men have passed on and I am sure that they thoroughly regret the dogmatism that they got into, especially on a subject in which they, and I, actually were missing critical information!

[Dennis Tate]

[quote name='Aloysius' timestamp='1327783877' post='2376645']
There has indeed been times when Christians and Jews have been bad to each other over history, and that is indeed regrettable. In some ways it stems from the fact that our two religions are, by their foundations, competing for the spot of the continuation of the Old Testament Religion. only one can be true, either Christ came and fulfilled and made anew, or He didn't. Either Christ destroyed the Temple and built it back up in three days, or He didn't. Christianity proclaims that He did. This "3rd temple" that you seek is the Church, and indeed the Messiah will return to the Church in the fullness of its construction, as we reach the ends of the earth with the Gospel and the unbloody sacrifice of the Eucharist of Christ.
.....
[/quote]

Aloysius, I think that you have gotten to the heart of the question...but there is another way to look at this!

Maybe both Judaism as well as Christianity each have significant roles to play in the ushering in of the era of Moshiach and/or the rulership of Rabbi Jesus/Yahushua over all the earth to the level where lions eat straw like an ox and the nations no longer even have standing armies (or at least we no longer use them to attack each other anyway)!?

Perhaps it is extremely difficult for Christians to even begin to understand the role that Jews are playing and perhaps it is virtually impossible for Jews to understand how the type of veneration that we offer to Rabbi Jesus is NOT actually some form of idolatry???!!!

Perhaps the only way for us to each perform our own roles effectively we must come to a higher level of respect for each other's point of view! We Christians, in my opinion, need to learn to take the words of Rabbi Jesus much more seriously that we are fools and slow of heart if we do not believe ALL THAT is written in the law and in the prophets!


[quote]Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:[/quote]

(Luke 24:25)

Since the prophet Ezekiel clearly stated that a Jerusalem Third Temple would be built in the future we should seriously consider the possibility that there is absolutely ZERO contradiction between the Jewish people doing what they need to do to fulfill all their duties and obligations at the same time that we Christians perform our rather different...but not necessarily contradictory duties and obligations!?

Edited February 4, 2012 by Dennis Tate

[Dennis Tate]

I have read a book entitled The Vision by Rick Joyner several times already. He was given an off the scale visionary dream in 1995 that in my opinion is probably real because it seems to do such a phenomenal job of tying up a bunch of loose ends that would tend to keep us divided.

In his vision he meets the Apostle Paul who among other things tells him that his own words cannot be used to negate the words of the Messiah!

Rick Joyner also meets up with Lot, then Jonah then Abel and then Adam....the messages that he receives from these four Jewish prophets is astonishing and to my thinking can only mean one of several things......one I guess is that Rick Joyner is an off the scale brilliant writer or more likely that he actually was given this visionary dream from God!

You will find the first part of it if you do a search for The Hordes of Hell Are Marching.

If we assume that this message from Paul is valid and that the words of Paul cannot be used to negate the words of the Messiah...then also the words of the Christian Bible do not do away with the foundational words of the Jewish Bible...but yes...a magnification and glorification of the words of Moses has been given and frankly many many of the Sanhedrin Rabbis of 2012 will be glad to add the basic principle of "let him who is without sin cast the first stone" when they face many actual cases in the near future!

[Aloysius]

Mr. Tate, thank you for your compliment... I don't try to "decimate opponents" in debates, though, not at all, sir. I am certainly expressing these truths forcefully, but not out of any motivation to "win an argument", but out of the motivation to preserve basic Christian doctrines.

As regards the vision of St. Paul you are describing: it is a long established Christian principle not to take any private visions as a source of doctrine in any way, but to judge visions against established Christian doctrines instead. this is because public revelation, the revelation of all that is necessary for salvation, ended with the death of the last Apostle. Christ's gospel came into the world and it was full and complete and we will never have any visions that add to it or take away from it, it is fully contained in the books of the New Testament, including St. Paul's words. St. Paul's words indeed do not contradict Christ's words, however, it does not contradict Christ to say that the law was fulfilled and that no one is bound any longer by the old law, for that was Christ's good news. St. Paul's words about how we are now bound only by the law of Grace was what Christ was saying to His disciples.

your interpretation of Ezechial is flawed. All the law and all the prophets are prophesying ultimately about Christ, and how He would come and destroy the temple and rebuild it (when He built His Church upon Peter, His Church IS "the temple"). there is no third temple, there is no need for it, for there is NO need for animal sacrifice anymore. NONE. Christ's sacrifice alone was sufficient for all sin.

you avoid my argument here. the function of the Temple of Jerusalem was to offer sacrifice. the Ultimate Sacrifice to END ALL SACRIFICES occurred in Jerusalem 2000 years ago. when it occurred, the earth shook and the temple veil was torn. shortly afterwards, God allowed the temple to be destroyed, signifying the end of the period of animal sacrifice and the dawn of the age of salvation and redemption through the sacrifice of Christ. there is no middle ground here, God has made the sacrifice complete; we all fulfill the WHOLE law and the WHOLE prophets when we experience Christ's sacrifice through the Eucharistic feast.

I am not just spouting off a passing theological theory or whim here, Mr. Tate, I am describing to you the basic foundations of the religion of Christianity, basic positions that have been held by the Church for 2000 years. Indeed, if God indeed wishes a Third Temple to be built, then God does not find the sacrifice of Christ to be sufficient, and Christianity is false. why else would God wish a Temple of sacrifices to be built except that He wished for more sacrifices? But the message of the Crucifixion, where God sacrificed His Only Son, is that God requires no more sacrifice. The sacrifice of Christ is wholly and completely sufficient. to say that any human being on earth must offer animal sacrifices to God is to say that Jesus Christ is [b][i]irrelevant.[/i] [/b]there is a choice in what you believe to be true, either you believe in Christianity or you believe in revived temple Judaism, but you cannot have it both ways.

Edited February 5, 2012 by Aloysius

[Dennis Tate]

[quote name='Aloysius' timestamp='1328425671' post='2381357']
Mr. Tate, thank you for your compliment... I don't try to "decimate opponents" in debates, though, not at all, sir. I am certainly expressing these truths forcefully, but not out of any motivation to "win an argument", but out of the motivation to preserve basic Christian doctrines.

............

I am not just spouting off a passing theological theory or whim here, Mr. Tate, I am describing to you the basic foundations of the religion of Christianity, basic positions that have been held by the Church for 2000 years. Indeed, if God indeed wishes a Third Temple to be built, then God does not find the sacrifice of Christ to be sufficient, and Christianity is false. why else would God wish a Temple of sacrifices to be built except that He wished for more sacrifices? But the message of the Crucifixion, where God sacrificed His Only Son, is that God requires no more sacrifice. The sacrifice of Christ is wholly and completely sufficient. to say that any human being on earth must offer animal sacrifices to God is to say that Jesus Christ is [b][i]irrelevant.[/i] [/b]there is a choice in what you believe to be true, either you believe in Christianity or you believe in revived temple Judaism, but you cannot have it both ways.
[/quote]

What I am talking about is along the theme of this verse:

[url="http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Luk&c=5&t=KJV#comm/14"]Luke 5:14[/url] And he charged him to tell no man: but go, and shew thyself to the priest, and offer for thy cleansing, according as Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them.