Question About Ethnic Identity

[Era Might]

[quote name='Light and Truth' date='14 January 2010 - 02:48 AM' timestamp='1263455280' post='2036841']
What does this mean change your ethnic identity?[/quote]
I'm not sure what it means. I don't think it's possible. I think you can ADD TO, but not wholly CHANGE your ethnic identity. You can't change how you were raised.

[quote name='Light and Truth' date='14 January 2010 - 02:48 AM' timestamp='1263455280' post='2036841']Also, what if I want to learn another culture? e.g. Jewish.[/quote]
You can learn "about" another culture, though I don't think you can really "learn another culture" without adopting it in some way. "Jewish" is not a good example, since it's a religion and not merely a culture.

[quote name='Light and Truth' date='14 January 2010 - 02:48 AM' timestamp='1263455280' post='2036841']Is my ethnicity Armenian, Swedish, Finnish, Scottish, English, etc. or is it "white"?[/quote]
I can't tell you what your ethnicity is. How were you raised? Were you raised in the context of American culture? Maybe your ethnicity is "American." Though there are different experiences of "American culture." My America is probably different from your America, and yours different from mine. Though there are some basic aspects of the American cultural experience that we share (obviously, for example, the English language).

[quote name='Light and Truth' date='14 January 2010 - 02:48 AM' timestamp='1263455280' post='2036841']Can a person have multiple ethnic identities?[/quote]
I don't see why they can't. But be true to who you are. Trying to grasp at "identities" is a fruitless exercise. Look at where you were raised, how you were raised. Were you raised with Finnish influences? Swedish influences? If not, then it's probably not being true to yourself to claim to be "Finnish-American." But if you want to add your Finnish heritage to who you are, there's nothing stopping you from doing so. But as I said, that requires you to become part of the community of the culture you want to embrace.

[Anastasia13]

[quote name='Era Might' date='14 January 2010 - 08:52 AM' timestamp='1263484333' post='2036937']You can learn "about" another culture, though I don't think you can really "learn another culture" without adopting it in some way. "Jewish" is not a good example, since it's a religion and not merely a culture.[/quote]
True it is a religion, but it is also a culture, and a heritage. You can be Jewish by heritage and still follow another religion (both internet, gentiles, and a Jew say this. Some say you can be Christian and still be Jewish. I am acquainted with a half-Jewish girl whose parents separated and her gentile parent raised her the most, but they celebrate Hannukah.

[Anastasia13]

[quote name='Era Might' timestamp='1263484333' post='2036937']
I'm not sure what it means. I don't think it's possible. I think you can ADD TO, but not wholly CHANGE your ethnic identity. You can't change how you were raised.

You can learn "about" another culture, though I don't think you can really "learn another culture" without adopting it in some way.

I can't tell you what your ethnicity is. How were you raised? Were you raised in the context of American culture? Maybe your ethnicity is "American." Though there are different experiences of "American culture." My America is probably different from your America, and yours different from mine. Though there are some basic aspects of the American cultural experience that we share (obviously, for example, the English language).

I don't see why they can't. But be true to who you are. Trying to grasp at "identities" is a fruitless exercise. Look at where you were raised, how you were raised. Were you raised with Finnish influences? Swedish influences? If not, then it's probably not being true to yourself to claim to be "Finnish-American." But if you want to add your Finnish heritage to who you are, there's nothing stopping you from doing so. But as I said, that requires you to become part of the community of the culture you want to embrace.
[/quote]
If you were raised with or see traces of in your parents from their heritage pieces of that heritage but were raised more American than anything else, are you simply American?

If say, you were not raised with a lot of influence from a certain part of your ethnic background but you get more involved in a communityor something with it later, can you call yourself XXXX-American?

Edited December 21, 2010 by Light and Truth

[Micah]

[quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1237696437' post='1813655']
Yes, you can tell horrible jokes about them and then claim membership. I do it all the time.
[/quote]

Truth! ^

Nevertheless, it is best to identify with the country and culture you were born and raised in. In my case, Canadian. In your case, probably whatever U.S state you were born in. It is a funny thing that Americans don't really identify with their own culture, when the first, second, third... generation of colonists were so strong in their identity. Catholics even moreso; they make up a very distinctive sub-section of U.S. culture.

[IcePrincessKRS]

[quote name='Micah' timestamp='1292950631' post='2193803']
Truth! ^

Nevertheless, it is best to identify with the country and culture you were born and raised in. In my case, Canadian. In your case, probably whatever U.S state you were born in.[b] It is a funny thing that Americans don't really identify with their own cultur[/b]e, when the first, second, third... generation of colonists were so strong in their identity. Catholics even moreso; they make up a very distinctive sub-section of U.S. culture.
[/quote]

That's not entirely true. It all depends on circumstance. We have a lot of things we identify with. Where our ancestors came from, our country as a whole, whether we are from east or west, north or south, what state we grew up in, what part of the state we grew up in. A huge factor in what we identify ourselves with depends on what conversation we happen to be participating in. Just the other day I was involved in the north to south comparison, a few days later it was black to white, etc. Circumstances account for a lot of why we identify with whatever we are identifying with at that given moment.

[Micah]

[quote name='IcePrincessKRS' timestamp='1292955690' post='2193815']
That's not entirely true. It all depends on circumstance. We have a lot of things we identify with. Where our ancestors came from, our country as a whole, whether we are from east or west, north or south, what state we grew up in, what part of the state we grew up in. A huge factor in what we identify ourselves with depends on what conversation we happen to be participating in. Just the other day I was involved in the north to south comparison, a few days later it was black to white, etc. Circumstances account for a lot of why we identify with whatever we are identifying with at that given moment.
[/quote]

that's v true

[Teen_Catholic]

I consider myself American and refuse to be _-American, even though I'm mostly of Norwegian and Irish descent.

[Era Might]

[quote name='Micah' timestamp='1292950631' post='2193803']It is a funny thing that Americans don't really identify with their own culture, when the first, second, third... generation of colonists were so strong in their identity.[/quote]
I remember watching the HBO John Adams miniseries and John Adams says "Massachusetts is my country." I thought it was kinda cool and true...we think of the United States as states within a country, but in some ways they're countries within a country.

[Micah]

[quote name='Teen_Catholic' timestamp='1292964657' post='2193836']
I consider myself American and refuse to be _-American, even though I'm mostly of Norwegian and Irish descent.
[/quote]

Right on.

[color=#595959][font=arial, verdana, sans-serif][size=4][quote]I remember watching the HBO John Adams miniseries and John Adams says "Massachusetts is my country." I thought it was kinda cool and true...we think of the United States as states within a country, but in some ways they're countries within a country.[/quote][/size][/font][/color]
[color=#595959][font=arial, verdana, sans-serif][size=4]
[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#595959][font=arial, verdana, sans-serif][size=4]Definitely. In fact, part of early American patriotism was rejecting pan-American nationalism (by which I mean early U.S. nationalism). In 1696, King George (?) tried bringing the states together in a board of trade, which colonists were deeply antagonistic to. Prior to that, the settlements north of Maryland had been forcibly unified in under the Dominion of New England, which colonists had revolted against. And in fact the bill of rights, perhaps the most well-known part of the U.S. constitution, was legislated in order to appease the anti-federalists.[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#595959][font=arial, verdana, sans-serif][size=4]
[/size][/font][/color]
[font="arial, verdana, sans-serif"][color="#595959"][size=4]In sum, for the majority of British North American history, Americans have identified much more with their state than the country. Probably why there is no national name? [/size][/color][/font][img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/think.gif[/img]

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Era Might' timestamp='1292967721' post='2193843']
I remember watching the HBO John Adams miniseries and John Adams says "Massachusetts is my country." I thought it was kinda cool and true...we think of the United States as states within a country, but in some ways they're countries within a country.
[/quote]
I think it also depends on your state. I live in sw Pa, and its culturally unrelated to the rest of the state. We identify with Ohioans, West Virginians and the midwest far more than anybody in Harrisburg/Scanton/Philadelphia. They are culturally east coast - New York and Boston types.

[4588686]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' timestamp='1263405523' post='2036224']
Agreed. I get tired of people telling me I have a black president as if he was cloned by his father.
[/quote]


Right. Because American culture has always said that somebody is black only if they are of pure African descent.


You're a smart woman. You know perfectly well that American culture has always defaulted to 'blackness' whenever there was a question of mixed ancestry. There has never been a period of American history that I am aware of that Obama would not be immediately classified as a black man. Disputing his right to be classified as the first black President is just petty.

[Micah]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1292999791' post='2193923']
Right. Because American culture has always said that somebody is black only if they are of pure African descent.


You're a smart woman. You know perfectly well that American culture has always defaulted to 'blackness' whenever there was a question of mixed ancestry. There has never been a period of American history that I am aware of that Obama would not be immediately classified as a black man. Disputing his right to be classified as the first black President is just petty.
[/quote]

Just as petty as projecting that bigotry on perfectly innocent people who do not share said 'one drop' rule.

Edited December 22, 2010 by Micah

[MithLuin]

[quote name='Saint Therese' timestamp='1263402896' post='2036187']
Can you claim to be Klingon-American?
[/quote]

Only if you speak Klingon.


Which is great, because under those rules, I'm a tiny bit Elvish.

Si man i yulme enquantuva?



('Who will refill the cup for me?', if you're curious.)

[MithLuin]

[quote name='Micah' timestamp='1292968272' post='2193845']

[color=#595959][font=arial, verdana, sans-serif][size=4]Definitely. In fact, part of early American patriotism was rejecting pan-American nationalism (by which I mean early U.S. nationalism). In 1696, King George (?) tried bringing the states together in a board of trade, which colonists were deeply antagonistic to. Prior to that, the settlements north of Maryland had been forcibly unified in under the Dominion of New England, which colonists had revolted against. And in fact the bill of rights, perhaps the most well-known part of the U.S. constitution, was legislated in order to appease the anti-federalists.[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#595959][font=arial, verdana, sans-serif][size=4]
[/size][/font][/color]
[font="arial, verdana, sans-serif"][color="#595959"][size=4]In sum, for the majority of British North American history, Americans have identified much more with their state than the country. Probably why there is no national name? [/size][/color][/font][img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/think.gif[/img]
[/quote]

Yeah, I feel people are quite loyal to states, but then...I had the experience of growing up on the Mason Dixon line. I lived on one side....and went to school on the other. Even elementary school. So, I felt loyal to my 'home' state even though all my classmates were from the neighboring state and I had to learn that state's history, etc. I was very reluctant to transfer residency, but I've lived and worked in the neighboring state ever since college. It's still not 'mine' though, even though they issued me my birth certificate.

[rkwright]

[quote name='Micah' timestamp='1292950631' post='2193803']
Truth! ^

Nevertheless, it is best to identify with the country and culture you were born and raised in. In my case, Canadian. In your case, probably whatever U.S state you were born in. It is a funny thing that Americans don't really identify with their own culture, when the first, second, third... generation of colonists were so strong in their identity. Catholics even moreso; they make up a very distinctive sub-section of U.S. culture.
[/quote]

I identify myself as an American. Mostly because both sides of my family immigrated pre-revolutionary war.

I guess at some point there is some later immigrant blood in there at some fraction - but the family name comes from prior to the war, and thats where the family history is.

BTW - we came over with Lord Baltimore

Edited December 22, 2010 by rkwright