Mary's Son Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 [url="http://www.ncregister.com/site/article/17568/"]http://www.ncregister.com/site/article/17568/[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle_eye222001 Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Good story. Thanks for pointing it out. ---------------- Listening to: [url="http://www.foxytunes.com/artist/linkin+park/track/bleed+it+out"]Linkin Park - Bleed It Out[/url] via [url="http://www.foxytunes.com/signatunes/"]FoxyTunes[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rose wrought of iron Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Cool story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissyP89 Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Awesome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin D Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Thanks for sharing this neat story! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonkers Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 [quote]One matter stood out from the beginning: The best, most thoughtful responses came from Catholics. Incidentally, their answers were consistently better than the ones from atheists. ?[/quote] Atheists don't have all the answers, because we don't have all the knowledge. Isn't this a sign of true humility? We are in a process of discovery, which I think is better than Catholicism which pretends to have all the answers but can't rationally defend them. I think Catholicism has the most "pretty" answers, but it's had 2,000 years to learn how to defend itself from every kind of objection. Personally, I think atheists offer consistently more truthful answers than catholics, but ours just aren't as attractive or emotionally satisfying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 [quote name='bonkers' post='1811047' date='Mar 18 2009, 08:56 PM']Atheists don't have all the answers, because we don't have all the knowledge. Isn't this a sign of true humility? We are in a process of discovery, which I think is better than Catholicism which pretends to have all the answers but can't rationally defend them. I think Catholicism has the most "pretty" answers, but it's had 2,000 years to learn how to defend itself from every kind of objection. Personally, I think atheists offer consistently more truthful answers than catholics, but ours just aren't as attractive or emotionally satisfying.[/quote] We've asked you personally many many times to give us these rational arguments. As far as I know, all we've got was somewhat vague philosophical stuff about evolution and the nature of evil. Obviously you don't have all the knowledge. Maybe you don't have any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonkers Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1811053' date='Mar 18 2009, 09:02 PM']We've asked you personally many many times to give us these rational arguments. As far as I know, all we've got was somewhat vague philosophical stuff about evolution and the nature of evil. Obviously you don't have all the knowledge. Maybe you don't have any.[/quote] I've stated it before, my argument is you don't have any evidence. You claim you do, through things like prayer, the power of the eucharist, basically emotional things only you can experience and can't be tested emperically. Atheists of course deny these things point to an objective truth. About vague philosophical stuff about evolution and morality, it's ok to be vague and continually evolving, as the church has been for 2,000 years. The main difference is our methods are infinitely more reliable, based on data and observaton rather subjective notions of faith, eternal reward and punishment. Maybe all your knowledge is worthless? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 [quote name='bonkers' post='1811095' date='Mar 18 2009, 11:45 PM']I've stated it before, my argument is you don't have any evidence. You claim you do, through things like prayer, the power of the eucharist, basically emotional things only you can experience and can't be tested emperically. Atheists of course deny these things point to an objective truth. About vague philosophical stuff about evolution and morality, it's ok to be vague and continually evolving, as the church has been for 2,000 years. The main difference is our methods are infinitely more reliable, based on data and observaton rather subjective notions of faith, eternal reward and punishment. Maybe all your knowledge is worthless?[/quote] You actually have no evidence either, but since the wager has infinite value, and I would rather risk being and doing good than sitting on the fence and saying Oops and finding out the hard way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 [quote name='bonkers' post='1811095' date='Mar 18 2009, 09:45 PM']I've stated it before, my argument is you don't have any evidence. You claim you do, through things like prayer, the power of the eucharist, basically emotional things only you can experience and can't be tested emperically. Atheists of course deny these things point to an objective truth. About vague philosophical stuff about evolution and morality, it's ok to be vague and continually evolving, as the church has been for 2,000 years. The main difference is our methods are infinitely more reliable, based on data and observaton rather subjective notions of faith, eternal reward and punishment. Maybe all your knowledge is worthless?[/quote] Contrary to what you want to believe, we do offer evidence besides the emotional. You can harp about individual miracles all you want, but the fact is we can throw thousands of them your way. Hundreds even in the last hundred years, many tested by secular people. Your infinitely more reliable methods have given you absolutely nothing. Your belief system that bases itself entirely on empirical data which yields results comes up with precious little quantitative or qualitative evidence to go on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1811101' date='Mar 18 2009, 10:48 PM']You actually have no evidence either, but since the wager has infinite value, and I would rather risk being and doing good than sitting on the fence and saying Oops and finding out the hard way.[/quote] Like the allusion to Pascal. Atheists dpn't need to have evidence. They can only point the the increasing ability to explain natural phenomena without the slightest need of any deity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle_eye222001 Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Need to watch out on how far we are straying....this has turned more into debate than open mic. Hassan, What we view in this world must come from something intelligent. You cannot logically believe that all we have, life, intelligence, comes from nothing. ---------------- Listening to: [url="http://www.foxytunes.com/artist/red+hot+chili+peppers/track/hard+to+concentrate"]Red Hot Chili Peppers - Hard To Concentrate[/url] via [url="http://www.foxytunes.com/signatunes/"]FoxyTunes[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 [quote name='Hassan' post='1811195' date='Mar 19 2009, 12:42 AM']Like the allusion to Pascal. Atheists dpn't need to have evidence. They can only point the the increasing ability to explain natural phenomena without the slightest need of any deity.[/quote] I don't need God to explain natural phenomena either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonkers Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1811101' date='Mar 18 2009, 09:48 PM']You actually have no evidence either, but since the wager has infinite value, and I would rather risk being and doing good than sitting on the fence and saying Oops and finding out the hard way.[/quote] I would rather do good for the sake of doing good than out of a fear of hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 [quote name='bonkers' post='1811229' date='Mar 18 2009, 11:06 PM']I would rather do good for the sake of doing good than out of a fear of hell.[/quote] What's good when there's no standard of judgement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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