Catholic Singles -- Why Such A Hot Topic In The Church?

[LouisvilleFan]

So, you've got a group of friends and a good parish... doesn't seem to be an issue.

[Norseman82]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1852512' date='Apr 29 2009, 06:53 PM']Otherwise, enjoy life and enjoy whatever God grants you because every vocation and lifestyle is a cross and a joy for different reasons. Wasting your single days worrying about not having a spouse takes the joy out of life and it'll take the joy out of marriage should you ever be married, as you've set yourself in a habit of wanting what you don't have.[/quote]

Believe it or not, this response right here sums up 90% of what is wrong with how singles are dealt with in the Church, i.e., when someone seeks to be married, they get criticism for it.

Wait until you get in your 30s and 40s and you're the one who is all alone - you'll change your tune. Now, hopefully, I'm seeing the light at the end of the tunnel if things work out with the lady I met at NCSC, but I haven't forgotten what it was like prior to that and I can empathize with those that are worried about not being able to find a good compatible Catholic spouse.

Edited May 3, 2009 by Norseman82

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='Norseman82' post='1856670' date='May 3 2009, 07:42 PM']Believe it or not, this response right here sums up 90% of what is wrong with how singles are dealt with in the Church, i.e., when someone seeks to be married, they get criticism for it.[/quote]

What do you mean by someone who seeks to be married? I know plenty of people who have married recently or are dating... none have been criticized. Likewise, I know some people who are happily single and have no desire for a spouse, and they are not criticized either.

[quote name='Norseman82' post='1856670' date='May 3 2009, 07:42 PM']Wait until you get in your 30s and 40s and you're the one who is all alone - you'll change your tune.[/quote]

There's a world of difference between being single and alone. Many married people are more lonely than most single people. Some people are quite happy being single and serving the Church with the freedom that singleness provides them. This is what St. Paul advised, after all. Those who are married must be concerned with their wife and family, leaving them incapable of serving God with singleness of heart. I'd rather seek friendship and grow in friendship... if marriage should bear fruit from a friendship, so be it. If not, this is fine too. Whatever God wills is better than my own will.

[quote name='Norseman82' post='1856670' date='May 3 2009, 07:42 PM']I can empathize with those that are worried about not being able to find a good compatible Catholic spouse.[/quote]

Well, I was kinda like that in college... in some ways I relate. And I'm much happier since I quit caring about getting marred. For that matter, I'm also happier since I quit caring about becoming a priest. I don't care either way... and I'm seeking to follow God's calling either direction or some other direction without my own attachment to the worldly benefits of either vocation tugging my heart this way or that.

Read St. Francis de Sales' "Finding God's Will For You" one afternoon... your circumstances needn't change to enjoy a happier life.

Edited May 4, 2009 by LouisvilleFan

[Collegepak]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1857370' date='May 4 2009, 09:23 AM']There's a world of difference between being single and alone. Many married people are more lonely than most single people. Some people are quite happy being single and serving the Church with the freedom that singleness provides them. This is what St. Paul advised, after all. Those who are married must be concerned with their wife and family, leaving them incapable of serving God with singleness of heart. I'd rather seek friendship and grow in friendship... if marriage should bear fruit from a friendship, so be it. If not, this is fine too. Whatever God wills is better than my own will.


Read St. Francis de Sales' "Finding God's Will For You" one afternoon... your circumstances needn't change to enjoy a happier life.[/quote]

[Collegepak]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1857370' date='May 4 2009, 09:23 AM']There's a world of difference between being single and alone. Many married people are more lonely than most single people. Some people are quite happy being single and serving the Church with the freedom that singleness provides them. This is what St. Paul advised, after all. Those who are married must be concerned with their wife and family, leaving them incapable of serving God with singleness of heart. I'd rather seek friendship and grow in friendship... if marriage should bear fruit from a friendship, so be it. If not, this is fine too. Whatever God wills is better than my own will.


Read St. Francis de Sales' "Finding God's Will For You" one afternoon... your circumstances needn't change to enjoy a happier life.[/quote]

[mod] personal attack --IPKRS[/mod] You keep trying to defend the marginal ethos of the Church under what basis?

First of all, I think there is a valid link between homosexuality within the Church Clergy and the state of marriage as they presume. the Overwhelming statistic is 60% of the American Catholic Clergy IS HOMOSEXUAL. THIS IS AMERICA, AND YOU 70s rejects messed [mod] language[/mod] it all up and you now you dont know how to wash your hands clean. I'm still baffled by the innumerable amount of Homo-sexual priests that I encounter. You can always tell who they are because they look like a deer that had just been hit by a truck, and talk in the annoying coy and pretentious soft voice. simply THIS IS CALLED REALITY Louisville. It's doubly disconcerting because the Catholic ministry IS a Platonic system. And if you know your philosophy you know how dangerous this is, Soren Kierkegaard was the first to point to this.

I'm appalled by the state of the Catholic Church in America, it is deeply in shambles. You think this is a red hering? Why do you think Benedict decided to proselytize in Africa on such a huge scale. The Church thinks in 100 year spans. I think the original poster is right in complaining for the lack of singles advocates within the Church. Our "leaders" really don't have a reason to care about singles or potential couples because most of them cringe at the idea.

I liked how the original posted included his experience with the Nun to thought it was neccessary that a priest be present at any Catholic singles event. That Nun should be sent on a missionary mission imo because she obviously does not know her place. There has always been and always will be so much envy within the Church.

[Collegepak]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1818943' date='Mar 28 2009, 08:15 PM']Friendship is what teaches us to become givers, to lay down ourselves selflessly for our friends, and whether we are engaged for marriage or studying for priesthood, we should be growing more open to God's love and will for our lives. I know priests who returned to seminary after breaking up an engagement and I've heard of married men who first met their wife while studying for the priesthood. You see, all these people were pursuing Christ and opening themselves to him, and we learn to open ourselves to God by opening ourselves to friendship.

My problem with singles group is they are geared toward the pursuit of marriage [i]at the exclusion[/i] of other vocations, including remaining single. To be truly open to marriage, we must be equally open to wherever God may lead us. We need to pursue Christ and in order to do that we need to minister alongside singles, married, priests, and religious in order to learn by following the example of others who have found their way -- rather, are further along the way. We need to surround ourselves with "elders," so to speak, and you can't do that going to a singles event.[/quote]


[mod]personal attack[/mod]

[LouisvilleFan]

Well, you're clearly very angry... but anger can be good in that it reveals where we need healing, as I know very well from experience.

If the Catholic Church is in shambles, this is good news... the Church is at her best when she's at her worst.

Regardless, I came back to this thread to post a follow up comment about one excellent way to seek marriage that all us men can begin this Wednesday by [url="http://www.e5men.org/"]praying and fasting[/url] with thousands of other men for the intention of women in our lives, or those in our past or future, and the Church.

I believe this anger and frustration you all feel comes from trying to "get there" on your own power. You can't do it. Even if you think you are... you might have a relationship or even get married, but these "accomplishments" are fake when they aren't the fruit of a "man after God's own heart." It's really that simple: seek God by laying down your lives in prayer and fasting.

Edited May 4, 2009 by LouisvilleFan

[Collegepak]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1857447' date='May 4 2009, 10:56 AM']I believe this anger and frustration you all feel comes from trying to "get there" on your own power. You can't do it. Even if you think you are... you might have a relationship or even get married, but these "accomplishments" are fake when they aren't the fruit of a "man after God's own heart." It's really that simple: seek God by laying down your lives in prayer and fasting.[/quote]

I have to give you this one. I am still recovering from the fact of learning new realities of just the institutional Church. Sure it scared me, deterred me from my faith, and I've more or less have given up on trying at the vocational direction of priesthood (something I've always had planted in the back of my mind). But now I just find it so disgusting, the[mod]edit-- attack on religious[/mod] priests, with their own internal cliques and politics to help them deal w/ their "loneliness." I've been blessed enough to have grown up being lead by some AWESOME priests, most of these were military chaplains. Sigh... we need lots of prayers @@

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='Collegepak' post='1858206' date='May 5 2009, 06:39 AM']I have to give you this one. I am still recovering from the fact of learning new realities of just the institutional Church. Sure it scared me, deterred me from my faith, and I've more or less have given up on trying at the vocational direction of priesthood (something I've always had planted in the back of my mind). But now I just find it so disgusting, the [mod]edit[/mod] priests, with their own internal cliques and politics to help them deal w/ their "loneliness." I've been blessed enough to have grown up being lead by some AWESOME priests, most of these were military chaplains. Sigh... we need lots of prayers @@[/quote]

This doesn't excuse anyone's behavior, but the same loneliness and other emotional/psychological issues manifest themselves all the time in marriages and relationships. We see it more frequently, so maybe we accept it as just a part of life, and certainly the nature of a priest's vocation makes his virtues and vices more visible to a whole community. Some priests love the lifestyle, attention, respect, or whatever more than the people... they are hired hands. Such pastors exist in every Christian body because the root of the problem is sin, for which the only solution is Christ. Some of these priests do convert. You don't hear about them on TV and the rumor mill doesn't spread their stories, but they are out there.

In fact, one of the associate pastors at the parish I've been attending is returning to active priestly ministry after being away for ten years and I know of another priest who was living a homosexual lifestyle as a priest before finally embracing celibacy. Keep praying... it's easy to neglect, but it does more good than we know.

[southern california guy]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1857447' date='May 4 2009, 08:56 AM']If the Catholic Church is in shambles, this is good news... the Church is at her best when she's at her worst.[/quote]

I would disagree with you on that point.

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1858229' date='May 5 2009, 07:01 AM']This doesn't excuse anyone's behavior, but the same loneliness and other emotional/psychological issues manifest themselves all the time in marriages and relationships. We see it more frequently, so maybe we accept it as just a part of life, and certainly the nature of a priest's vocation makes his virtues and vices more visible to a whole community. Some priests love the lifestyle, attention, respect, or whatever more than the people... they are hired hands. Such pastors exist in every Christian body because the root of the problem is sin, for which the only solution is Christ. Some of these priests do convert. You don't hear about them on TV and the rumor mill doesn't spread their stories, but they are out there.[/quote]

Isn't this the old "Everybody else does it, and they do it worse!" argument? I don't agree. I think that there is much more homosexuality in the Catholic church than in the general population -- and definitely much more than in heterosexual marriages, or in other christian religions. I wonder if there are any statistics available on this subject.


[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1858229' date='May 5 2009, 07:01 AM']In fact, one of the associate pastors at the parish I've been attending is returning to active priestly ministry after being away for ten years and I know of another priest who was living a homosexual lifestyle as a priest before finally embracing celibacy. Keep praying... it's easy to neglect, but it does more good than we know.[/quote]

I've personally known several homosexual priests but I've never [b]personally[/b] known any homosexual pastors (Of Protestant churches) even though I've been very involved with Protestant religions for the past twenty years. And I confess that I'm creeped out by homosexual priests even if they claim to have changed their ways..

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='southern california guy' post='1858724' date='May 5 2009, 06:26 PM']I would disagree with you on that point. [/quote]

The Church exists for the glory of God... and God is glorified by Christ crucified. For many years, the man God would use to deliver Israel from famine was sitting in a prison cell in Egypt after being falsely accused of raping the pharaoh's wife... after being sold into slavery by his own brothers... his life was pretty much in shambles, except that he remained faithful to God. We aren't here to set up earthly kingdoms. We are parishioners, or sojourners, in a foreign land on journey to our home.

[quote name='southern california guy' post='1858724' date='May 5 2009, 06:26 PM']Isn't this the old "Everybody else does it, and they do it worse!" argument? I don't agree. I think that there is much more homosexuality in the Catholic church than in the general population -- and definitely much more than in heterosexual marriages, or in other christian religions. I wonder if there are any statistics available on this subject.[/quote]

I specifically said that sin is not excused by others' sin. My point was to show that the sins of priests, pastors, and anyone who is in a visible role are always more visible to a lot more people than the same sins among others. This doesn't excuse them, but it does explain how our perception might be affected.

[quote name='southern california guy' post='1858724' date='May 5 2009, 06:26 PM']I've personally known several homosexual priests but I've never [b]personally[/b] known any homosexual pastors (Of Protestant churches) even though I've been very involved with Protestant religions for the past twenty years. And I confess that I'm creeped out by homosexual priests even if they claim to have changed their ways.. [/quote]

I can't claim to know homosexual pastors/priests in either camp... what I do know is all people are made in the image of God, so it doesn't matter to me what their problems are. We are here to help one another know Christ and reach heaven.