Catholic Singles -- Why Such A Hot Topic In The Church?

[southern california guy]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1817664' date='Mar 26 2009, 11:37 PM']There are other places to be involved than the parish too. I mean there's no way you're going to meet every potential spouse as single's events. I'll bet a lot of them would think like me, and just not want anything to do with single's stuff.
There's a time and place for them of course, and I know it helps some people, but it's good to realize that it's not the only way.[/quote]

Catholic "singles" events -- organized by the Catholic church -- basically don't exist out here on the West Coast. It wasn't until recently -- when some frustrated rebellious Catholics started organizing singles conferences -- that singles conferences existed at all.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='southern california guy' post='1817717' date='Mar 27 2009, 06:56 AM']Catholic "singles" events -- organized by the Catholic church -- basically don't exist out here on the West Coast. It wasn't until recently -- when some frustrated rebellious Catholics started organizing singles conferences -- that singles conferences existed at all.[/quote]
I've never seen one either, but a couple people on this thread seem to be in favour of them in theory.

[quote]some frustrated rebellious Catholics started organizing singles conferences[/quote]

What do you mean by this?

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='southern california guy' post='1817378' date='Mar 26 2009, 10:35 PM']Have you ever been to a "singles" get together? And I mean a BIG one.[/quote]

That sounds really scary

[quote name='southern california guy' post='1817378' date='Mar 26 2009, 10:35 PM']In the past I've spotted women that stood by themselves at Mass -- and they had no kids. I thought for sure that they were single, and I wanted to figure out an opportunity to meet them. Then one day -- their husband is back! (He either had a job where he travelled a lot, or he was in the military and got deployed. I see this a lot around here because I live very near to Camp Pendleton the Marine base).[/quote]

Yeah, I often see single women at Mass. Usually they leave right after Communion... I've thought about leaving alongside them just so I'll "happen" to be in the right place at the right time Sometimes you gotta flirt to convert, as they say. If you've ever noticed how many Catholics are converts, you'll realize there's some truth in using attraction and humor to lower the defenses one might normally have against the Church.

Otherwise, ever thought of checkin' the ol' ring finger? Or just being kind enough to strike up a conversation regardless of whether she might be single/married/liberal/conservative/blonde/brunette/whatever? I mean, I've been there before when I felt like I had to know if a girl was a Christian first before I could consider asking her out... but then I grew a pair and realized that going out is just getting to know someone and have a good time. So what if she's a pope hating Baptist or a baby killing liberal? All the more fun!

And you never know what God might work throug a good friendship.

[quote name='southern california guy' post='1817378' date='Mar 26 2009, 10:35 PM']The nice thing about a singles get together is that you don't have to worry about whether the people are married are not. You know that they're single and looking. And you can meet people there -- that you might want to date later. It still takes time to get to know a person. I think that it's a good idea to date for at least a year and a half -- like Dr Laura suggests.[/quote]

See, that is precisely the problem with singles events: everyone is single and looking. That's what we call a Christian meat market (where the expectation is you'll wait for marriage, but you won't have to wait long). It's creepy and unhealthy.

[quote name='southern california guy' post='1817378' date='Mar 26 2009, 10:35 PM']Ironically now the dilema I've been running into is the issue of having kids.. Very few of the older successful women that I date want to be stay at home moms. And many don't even want to have kids at all! I still do.[/quote]

You're the man. Tell her she's gonna have some babies, and she's gonna like it too.

I meet Catholics all over the place... some are less bitter about the fact than others, but still, if you just get out and take some dance lessons somewhere, join a sports league, get involved in a pro-life apostolate (just sharing what I do) or whatever it is you're into, you'll meet people. No, they won't all be good single Catholic girls waiting for you to waltz into their lives, but you may meet one or two. You're only going to marry one girl anyway, so why do you need a big singles crowd?

For that matter, I've become good friends with girls I first met after a Mass or through some of these groups. I was interested in them, but found out they were engaged or interested in someone else, so the interest faded and we remain as friends. Sometimes it really sucked at the time if I liked her a lot or felt like I was being too easily ignored. It's kinda funny looking back, but it's all just part of the trial and error of dating.

[url="http://myrcresource.com/interior02.phtml?se=001&ca=007&ar=70"]Here's[/url] a good short pamplet called "Dating & Engagement" written by Fr. Marcial Maciel, LC, in 1988 to the Regnum Christi Movement in Mexico City. Friend of mine gave me a copy last fall and I just got around to reading it last night I burned out of reading dating advice many years ago during the
"I Kissed Dating Goodbye" craze, but this is short-and-sweet and well grounded advice based on the theology of love and marriage.

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1817423' date='Mar 26 2009, 11:14 PM']I'm not saying everyone should join singles groups, sites, etc., and if you find a woman some other way, great. However, I don't think it's right to dismiss or condemn Catholic "singles" groups and activities in themselves. One shouldn't confine himself to such things to avoid other interaction, but, if done right, they can help facilitate meeting eligible Catholic people of the opposite sex, something that's not always easy to do in today's world.[/quote]

Still, it's very insular... people gather at big meetings, conferences, and conventions out of a shared interest, purpose, or vocation. I could go to a beer brewers' convention or a gun show or the Catholic New Media Celebration or the March for Life or run a marathon and meet a lot of people with whom I share a purpose or goal that pulls me outside of myself and gives me something to live for. But a singles conference? Being single is not much to share in common with other people. And is that the purpose for which you're living? How does a singles conference give you any sort of mission or goal in life? I just don't see it.

[southern california guy]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1817757' date='Mar 27 2009, 08:21 AM']Still, it's very insular... people gather at big meetings, conferences, and conventions out of a shared interest, purpose, or vocation. I could go to a beer brewers' convention or a gun show or the Catholic New Media Celebration or the March for Life or run a marathon and meet a lot of people with whom I share a purpose or goal that pulls me outside of myself and gives me something to live for. But a singles conference? Being single is not much to share in common with other people. And is that the purpose for which you're living? How does a singles conference give you any sort of mission or goal in life? I just don't see it.[/quote]

I have no purpose in life -- OTHER THAN TO FIND THE RIGHT WOMAN TO MARRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That, by gawd, is my single most important mission and goal. Aww.. the other stuffs all easy. [b]SO STOP PICKING ON ME!![/b]

As you can imagine singles conferences are extremely ackward places where nobody talks to anybody and everybody sits around, twiddles their fingers -- and stares at the ceiling... It's not like you're going to make friends there.. Or hang out and socialize during breakfast, lunch, or dinner. After all those single people are pretty weird (If you know what I mean.. )

Okay wait a second... it was a [b]Catholic[/b] singles conference that I attended. Probably what we had in common was the Catholic religion. Gosh, maybe I learned something from the talks? Maybe I learned something discussing the talks with other people there? Maybe I made some Catholic friends..

[southern california guy]

Also I might add for any singles down in Southern California there is a fundraising dinner coming up this Sunday (March 29th) at 4:00 pm at the Wine Cabana, in "Old Town" San Diego California , for "Singles Serving Orphans".

"Singles Serving Orphans" is a missionary team started by Dave Sloan (One of the people who helped organize and run the last two "National Catholic Singles Conferences" in La Jolla . He's currently working on the "Catholic Thrive" Catholic singles conference coming up May 22, 23, and 24th in Anaheim ).

First they meet at the incredible " Redemptrist Renewal Center in Tucson , AZ " (With surreal cactus scenery!)

[img]http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-sf2p/v645/196/54/523770321/n523770321_6118469_5807522.jpg[/img]

Then they ride down together in a van to the Casa de Elizabeth orphanage in Imuris Mexico.

[img]http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-sf2p/v645/196/54/523770321/n523770321_6118366_1258834.jpg[/img]

Here's a very good video made by the people who run the orphanage -- Casa de Elizabeth .
[url="http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8069179322679290282&ei=Vqy9Sf_4NJGsrQLH1K3qBQ&q=casa+de+elizabeth&hl=en"]http
://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8...beth&hl=en
[/url]

------------

And here's a letter that Dave Sloan sent to us on Facebook:


Hi friends ,

I hope this message finds you and the ones you love well and thriving in every way. I’m writing to beg your assistance with my upcoming mission trip. During the week of Easter I’ll be going to Casa de Elizabeth Orphanage in Imuris , Mexico for the eighth time in 14 months. I’ve fallen in love with the kids there, and with my fellow missionaries as well. Please pray for this mission, and join us for a trip if you can. The mission dates are on our website. And, if you can, please make a one-time or recurring donation at our online giving page. It’s fast, simple, and tax deductible.

All of the information on giving, and lots more info about the trips, can be found at:

www.godsfamily.net/singles-serving-orphans
From there, just click “online giving page.”

On the upcoming trip we will demolish and completely rebuild a large section of the roof of the orphanage. A group of us are going down several days early to begin this project. We are very experienced at this type of construction, and I can assure you that this is a very fruitful use of our donors’ money. Also, we provide food and cook delicious and healthy (except for the ice cream -- surely God wants orphans to have ice cream) meals for the kids each day we are there. We do arts and crafts with the kids, and play and pray with them. We have formed a bond of love with them which has as much meaning to them as it does to us, and I can assure you that meaning is infinite.

On our Christmas trip we provided and installed thick, strong and expensive ($180/sheet) Plexiglas in the many places where glass had been broken and was missing. Where needed, we built operable windows from Plexiglas. There had been cold air and rain blowing in, and now there is not. The kids were ecstatic—jumping up and down on their beds and laughing and singing with joy as we weather-proofed their rooms.

We do lots of other work there, including LOTS of painting, and helping out wherever the need is greatest. One pressing is for a new water pump for the well, and we will be making a donation toward that project on our upcoming trip.

Because of the economic downturn, and the violence in Mexico , visits and donations are way down, and need is way up. Anything you can give will go a long way. Thank you so much for your help.

Peace and many blessings,
Dave

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And here is the information from the Facebook page advertising the March 29th dinner. See you guys there!!

Host:


Dave Sloan, Amy L. Benoit, Sarah Groves, Shannon Mahaney & Others

Type:


Causes - Fundraiser

Network:


Global



Date:


Sunday, March 29, 2009

Time:


4:00pm - 9:00pm

Location:


The Wine Cabana - Old Town

Street:


2539 Congress Street

City/Town:


San Diego , CA




View Map

Google

MapQuest

Microsoft

Yahoo



Phone:


6192788785

Email:


amylb_28@yahoo.com
Description

HELLO BEAUTIFUL PEOPLE!!!

Please come join us on March 29th anytime from 4pm to 9pm for an amazing wine experience / fundraiser. The Wine Cabana in Old Town is gracious enough to host our group with a minimum $20 cover which gets you one glass of wine, door prize entry and helps raise money for the kids at Casa de Elizabeth (CdE) Orphanage in Imuris, Mex. We will also be raffling off some pretty great prizes.

All of us will be traveling with the group Singles Serving Orphans (SSO). SSO has traveled to Imuris more than a half dozen times in the past year and done so much work. Some of the projects thus far have been to replace a roof, build up perimeter wall, install 16 security cameras, grounds motion lights, solar energy panels, replaced rotted wood, LOTS OF PAINTING, cooking for the kids and staff, art projects with the kids, raising money, food and supplies for the orphanage and the BIG PROJECT is a school house that is currently in construction.

We will be heading down the first week in April and need your help.

Please stop by, make a donation, have a glass of wine, and possibly win a prize.

Thanks and God Bless you ALL!!!

Pictures of orphanage and kids below. Donations also accepted online at www.GodsFamily.net

Edited March 28, 2009 by southern california guy

[Socrates]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1817757' date='Mar 27 2009, 10:21 AM']Still, it's very insular... people gather at big meetings, conferences, and conventions out of a shared interest, purpose, or vocation. I could go to a beer brewers' convention or a gun show or the Catholic New Media Celebration or the March for Life or run a marathon and meet a lot of people with whom I share a purpose or goal that pulls me outside of myself and gives me something to live for. But a singles conference? Being single is not much to share in common with other people. And is that the purpose for which you're living? How does a singles conference give you any sort of mission or goal in life? I just don't see it.[/quote]
The point of Catholic singles groups/activities/websites isn't to "give you a mission or goal in life" - it's simply a way to meet eligible singles who share your Catholic Faith.


I'm afraid I'm not really following you there - Any Catholic singles group is too "insular"? Because they're all Catholic?
One would think that for a serious Catholic, the Faith itself would give one a shared "purpose or goal that pulls me outside of myself and gives me something to live for"!
I would even go so far as to consider it more important and central than an interest in guns, brewing beer, or marathon running.
(I hadn't thought about going to gun shows to meet women, but maybe that might be an idea - if I hadn't already found Bubblicious, that is. )

I don't think anyone made any sort of claim that being single is a purpose or goal in life. However, joining other Catholic singles can be a way of finding others who share your Faith and are eligible for marriage. Not that it's the only option, but it certainly is a way of meeting more eligible ladies. No one's going to find a mate by spending all their time around married couples. I found my girl on a Catholic "singles" site.

I don't have any experience myself with "Singles Conferences" - you'll have to talk to Norseman or SoCal Guy about that - but I was briefly involved with a Catholic singles group that organized get-togethers at restaurants, hikes, dances, concerts, etc. (though the leader moved away before the group really had a chance to get going, and there wasn't enough participation). I think in theory, at least, it's a great idea - just an opportunity for single Catholics to get together and have fun in a casual setting, and perhaps form friendships and more.

I'm having trouble seeing the reason for the hostility to anything "singles," and it seems you're bringing a lot of pre-conceived ideas and prejudices to your discussion, which aren't really related to reality.

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1817754' date='Mar 27 2009, 10:12 AM']Otherwise, ever thought of checkin' the ol' ring finger? Or just being kind enough to strike up a conversation regardless of whether she might be single/married/liberal/conservative/blonde/brunette/whatever? I mean, I've been there before when I felt like I had to know if a girl was a Christian first before I could consider asking her out... but then I grew a pair and realized that going out is just getting to know someone and have a good time. So what if she's a pope hating Baptist or a baby killing liberal? All the more fun![/quote]
While I realize you're probably trying to inject a bit of tongue-in-cheek humor in there, I wouldn't say that's really the best idea - at least when it comes to serious dating.
Sure, if all you're after is just fun and games (who cares what she believes, so long as she's hot?) - but if you're actually dating to discern marriage, it's best to search after those who share your Faith and core values.
One shouldn't necessarily rule out dating non-Catholics (when my dad met my mom, he was Catholic though she was not), but it's still best not to seriously date anyone who is not at least seriously open to conversion, or who is strongly opposed to your core beliefs.
While conversions do happen, more often it's a bad relationship, or bad marriage, or at least on detrimental to the Faith. The Church frowns on mixed marriages for a reason.
Especially consider when raising children is factored in. Do the kids follow your orthodox Catholic faith and values, or mommy's pro-abort liberal relativist feminist values? You get the point.
While we should certainly try to convert others, conversion should never be the goal of dating.
While maybe dating outside one's faith and other core beliefs may work out for a few, there's certainly no reason to put down those who are trying to find a mate who shares their own Faith and morals. (Are you implying that those men who only wish to date Christians [i]don't[/i] "have a pair"?)

Edited March 28, 2009 by Socrates

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='southern california guy' post='1818144' date='Mar 27 2009, 10:16 PM']I have no purpose in life -- OTHER THAN TO FIND THE RIGHT WOMAN TO MARRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That, by gawd, is my single most important mission and goal. Aww.. the other stuffs all easy. [b]SO STOP PICKING ON ME!![/b][/quote]

I can't tell if you're joking... let me ask this: Are you looking for the right woman to marry in order to follow Christ more faithfully, or are you following Christ in order to find the right woman to marry?

[quote name='southern california guy' post='1818361' date='Mar 28 2009, 12:58 AM']Okay wait a second... it was a [b]Catholic[/b] singles conference that I attended. Probably what we had in common was the Catholic religion. Gosh, maybe I learned something from the talks? Maybe I learned something discussing the talks with other people there? Maybe I made some Catholic friends..[/quote]

I know a lot of faithful, orthodox Catholics with whom I have little else in common and therefore I find we don't "mingle" all that effectively. We can get along because we extend each other a little grace and humility, but I get along better with non-Catholics with whom I share other things in common, and get along best with Christians and Catholics when we share other stuff in common. Without those other interests, life together can be kinda dry.

Edited March 28, 2009 by LouisvilleFan

[Aloysius]

if you're looking for marriage, you should be trying to find someone Catholic if at all possible. the Church considers that extremely preferable, and when a Catholic marries a non-Catholic, they actually must obtain permission from the bishop as that is a non-ideal situation, but the Church knows matters of the heart can be tricky and extends some mercy/leniency towards those who have found non-Catholics they wish to marry.

so regardless of whether you mingle better with some non-Catholics, I think it should be worth a shot to look for Catholics to marry... obviously being Catholic shouldn't be the only thing you have in common, but it should be a big thing that you're looking for in a future spouse. if you end up finding someone non-Catholic, then by all means make sure she's willing to have the kids raised in the faith, will not impede your own Catholic faith, and then go ahead and seek the dispensation... but keep in mind while looking that the ideal would be a fellow Catholic. the Church doesn't say it doesn't matter if they're Catholic or not, she pretty much says "find someone Catholic... but, well, if they're non-Catholic, well, then we'll have a little talk and see if we can work something out, if you're dead set on them"

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1818184' date='Mar 27 2009, 10:56 PM']The point of Catholic singles groups/activities/websites isn't to "give you a mission or goal in life" - it's simply a way to meet eligible singles who share your Catholic Faith.[/quote]

Yes, and I'm arguing that's the problem... I've explained below. Here's a question to think about along the way:

When you get married, what will you do in your time away from your wife?

[quote name='Socrates' post='1818184' date='Mar 27 2009, 10:56 PM']I'm afraid I'm not really following you there - Any Catholic singles group is too "insular"? Because they're all Catholic?
One would think that for a serious Catholic, the Faith itself would give one a shared "purpose or goal that pulls me outside of myself and gives me something to live for"!
I would even go so far as to consider it more important and central than an interest in guns, brewing beer, or marathon running.[/quote]

Our faith is our most valued possession, but not faith alone. Through our faith, God is calling us to a greater mission: praying and fighting for the unborn, serving the homeless and families in poverty, teaching, parish ministry, etc. Our vocation (marriage, priesthood, religious life, and our time of singleness beforehand) are the means by which we serve Christ in the good works he has prepared for us. Marriage, priesthood, or whatever are not in and of themselves the good works, but a Christian identity that shapes how we work for God. That's why a ministry focused on getting married is unhealthy, just as a ministry focused on becoming a priest or religious is unhealthy. God is our destination; vocation is simply the vehicle he gives us. Why busy ourselves shopping for the vehicle while neglecting the destination?

[quote name='Socrates' post='1818184' date='Mar 27 2009, 10:56 PM'](I hadn't thought about going to gun shows to meet women, but maybe that might be an idea - if I hadn't already found Bubblicious, that is. )[/quote]

I originally got involved in a college Christian ministry to meet girls. Did I eventually (after two years) find someone? Yes, though it didn't last long. But did I consider my "mission" a failure because I wasn't dating much? By no means... because God showed me greater things through learning how to study Scripture, how to pray, and grow in virtue and confidence. I've learned that life isn't about meeting "the one" and the sooner we find other things to live for and pursue, the happier we are.

So, the point to attending a gun show (or whatever you might like to do) is not to meet women. You go because that is what interests you and for that reason you enjoy socializing and building friendships with other people who share your interest.

[quote name='Socrates' post='1818184' date='Mar 27 2009, 10:56 PM']I don't think anyone made any sort of claim that being single is a purpose or goal in life. However, joining other Catholic singles can be a way of finding others who share your Faith and are eligible for marriage. Not that it's the only option, but it certainly is a way of meeting more eligible ladies. No one's going to find a mate by spending all their time around married couples. I found my girl on a Catholic "singles" site.[/quote]

I disagree. Married couples have single friends... you show up for a cookout, meet someone, get to know each other, and through a shared friendship there's already a level of trust and common interest that you share. A single person with a lot of married friends is in a far better position to enter a [i]healthy marriage[/i] than a single person with lots of single friends.

Emphasis on the healthy marriage... because you might get your wish and regret it. Do not assume that because two people are faithful Christians that their marriage will happy or even successful.

[quote name='Socrates' post='1818184' date='Mar 27 2009, 10:56 PM']I don't have any experience myself with "Singles Conferences" - you'll have to talk to Norseman or SoCal Guy about that - but I was briefly involved with a Catholic singles group that organized get-togethers at restaurants, hikes, dances, concerts, etc. (though the leader moved away before the group really had a chance to get going, and there wasn't enough participation). I think in theory, at least, it's a great idea - just an opportunity for single Catholics to get together and have fun in a casual setting, and perhaps form friendships and more.[/quote]

It wasn't successful because those groups rarely work. There must be a greater purpose -- it's what we're wired for by God's design. (That's why I think atheist/agnostic groups are hilarious... by forming a group, they form a testament to the Holy Trinity, but I digress.) A parish-based outdoors group, for example, would be great way to form fellowship. Get anyone at the parish and their friends together to go backpacking and rappelling and all that fun stuff. You'll have married couples and singles, probably some non-Catholics, and you'll all share an appreciation for nature and the great outdoors. That's a solid basis for building deeper friendships, and deep friendship is the school in which we learn to follow Christ with deep affection, from whom we receive our vocation.

[quote name='Socrates' post='1818184' date='Mar 27 2009, 10:56 PM']One shouldn't necessarily rule out dating non-Catholics (when my dad met my mom, he was Catholic though she was not), but it's still best not to seriously date anyone who is not at least seriously open to conversion, or who is strongly opposed to your core beliefs.[/quote]

Of course, I discourage anyone to get seriously involved with a person who doesn't share their faith and values. That said, I have two friends who will get married (not engaged, but they are obviously right for each other) and she's Catholic while he's a non-Catholic Christian. The share a long, deep, committed friendship; he goes to Mass with her; and they are both involved in pro-life ministry. They will enjoy a successful and fruitful marriage.

Now, last summer I went out a couple times with a very liberal Catholic girl. We shared a common enjoyment of baseball games (going back to my point earlier about having something in common besides faith) and I did like her, though I couldn't get involved unless she opened more to being faithful to the Church. I'm still her friend and pray that she someday she sees what is different about a man who is committed to Christ first.

[quote name='Socrates' post='1818184' date='Mar 27 2009, 10:56 PM'](Are you implying that those men who only wish to date Christians [i]don't[/i] "have a pair"?)[/quote]

Yes, but it depends on their reason. In my case, I avoided dating non-Christians because I was intimidated by our difference of beliefs, and even as a Catholic I dated a non-Catholic Christian and lacked the confidence to honestly discuss our differences while being a faithful witness to the Catholic Church. My heart would get ahead of my head, and it would bother me too much that someone I had fallen for didn't share my faith and I couldn't stand the possibility that she might not become Catholic. So, for me, it felt safer to only consider Catholics. But, as my love for the Church has grown stronger (even though it still feels weak and vain, but that's part of growing) I know and firmly believe that every person is created to be Catholic. Therefore, I'm open to dating anyone, as long as our virtues and morals are not compromised and the two of us can grow a deeper friendship.

Maybe that is the bottom line I'm trying to get at... we need to pursue friendships and everything else take care of itself in God's time. I love this quote...

"In earthly life, after that of parents and sisters, one of the most beautiful forms of affection is friendship." -Blessed Pier Giorgio Frassati


Speaking of Frassati, the [url="http://www.frassati.org/"]Frassati Society[/url] in the Diocese of Lafayette, Indiana is an excellent group for young adult Catholics to pursue Christ together in the spirit of Blessed Frassati's life. There's no doubt people have married through fellowship in this group, along with discovering vocations to the priesthood and religious life. And young adult Catholics in any vocation are part of the group, so it's not a bunch of singles looking for a spouse, but a bunch of young adults following Christ.

Friendship is what teaches us to become givers, to lay down ourselves selflessly for our friends, and whether we are engaged for marriage or studying for priesthood, we should be growing more open to God's love and will for our lives. I know priests who returned to seminary after breaking up an engagement and I've heard of married men who first met their wife while studying for the priesthood. You see, all these people were pursuing Christ and opening themselves to him, and we learn to open ourselves to God by opening ourselves to friendship.

My problem with singles group is they are geared toward the pursuit of marriage [i]at the exclusion[/i] of other vocations, including remaining single. To be truly open to marriage, we must be equally open to wherever God may lead us. We need to pursue Christ and in order to do that we need to minister alongside singles, married, priests, and religious in order to learn by following the example of others who have found their way -- rather, are further along the way. We need to surround ourselves with "elders," so to speak, and you can't do that going to a singles event.

Edited March 29, 2009 by LouisvilleFan

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1818870' date='Mar 28 2009, 08:17 PM']if you're looking for marriage, you should be trying to find someone Catholic if at all possible. the Church considers that extremely preferable, and when a Catholic marries a non-Catholic, they actually must obtain permission from the bishop as that is a non-ideal situation, but the Church knows matters of the heart can be tricky and extends some mercy/leniency towards those who have found non-Catholics they wish to marry.

so regardless of whether you mingle better with some non-Catholics, I think it should be worth a shot to look for Catholics to marry... obviously being Catholic shouldn't be the only thing you have in common, but it should be a big thing that you're looking for in a future spouse. if you end up finding someone non-Catholic, then by all means make sure she's willing to have the kids raised in the faith, will not impede your own Catholic faith, and then go ahead and seek the dispensation... but keep in mind while looking that the ideal would be a fellow Catholic. the Church doesn't say it doesn't matter if they're Catholic or not, she pretty much says "find someone Catholic... but, well, if they're non-Catholic, well, then we'll have a little talk and see if we can work something out, if you're dead set on them"[/quote]

I'm not denying any of this. I fully agree with the Church. Her foolishness far exceeds my wisdom.

On the other hand, I also know from the bad experiences of faithful Christian friends who are getting divorces (along with the success of Catholic mixed marriages) that the ingredients of a happy marriage run far deeper than religious affiliation, as important as that one is. I would argue that for the success of a marriage, being your spouse's best friend is more important than being Catholic. I balance that by acknowledging that friendship with God and our neighbors is the purpose of Catholicism, because God laid down his life for us while we were yet sinners, so that we could join in his fellowship and share in his glory. Thus, friendship and "being Catholic" couldn't be more intimately related.

Edited March 29, 2009 by LouisvilleFan

[southern california guy]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1818850' date='Mar 28 2009, 04:50 PM']I can't tell if you're joking... let me ask this: Are you looking for the right woman to marry in order to follow Christ more faithfully, or are you following Christ in order to find the right woman to marry?[/quote]

Yes obviously I was joking. You were being sarcastic weren't you?

But seriously I've got a completely different perspective. I'm neither looking for the right woman to marry in order to follow Christ more faithfully, or following Christ in order to find the right woman to marry. I'm looking for a woman who I have strong feelings for -- and who shares the same moral principles and beliefs.

I've run into many pro-abortion liberal Catholic women who sleep around (Amazingly some of these people actually talk pro-life, and you would think that they're pretty decent -- until you really get to know them .) They're no more compatible with me than non-Catholic woman. And honestly I view them no differently. I couldn't care less that they're Catholic. And I'm not stupid enough to believe that these are "good people just making mistakes". Seriously if you want to discern what a person believes -- look at how they behave. And as far as I'm concerned [b]behavior is ALL that matters[/b]. If the person is mentally insane so they believe one thing -- but do another -- then I don't want to have anything to do with them anyway.

My family moved from California up to Washington State in the mid-seventies. And in the late seventies through the eighties the Catholic church in Washington -- under Archbishop Hunthausen -- started holding "Dignity" masses for homosexuals, arguing that homosexuals were "..just another type of family.." and pushing for liberal changes in the Catholic church. At first my parents switched us from the Catholic church in town, to a Catholic church in another town. Then when the priests at that church started saying the same thing we stopped going altogether (Which I know is a Cardinal sin).

You see my parents are VERY principled people but they're not loyal. I think that most people are cowardly when it comes to groups. And in this case I'm taking about religious groups. Most people aren't going to risk their standing in their religious group. Either they will go along with the "changes" in the church -- or they just simply don't won't talk about them at all with their children. So their children learn immoral values from the church -- regardless of having parents who behave morally. Their parents sort of try to play both sides. What really shocks me are fathers who are such huge cowards that they won't stand up for their own son -- or daughter -- who's been molested by a priest. As far as I'm concerned a real man will give his life to protect his wife or kids. That's the sort of commitment and compassion you want in marriage. You know what I mean if somebody is threatening your wife or kids and they're no way that you're capably able to stand up to them physically -- you do anyway! Let me tell you, if you stand up for somebody you ARE going to get hurt. Every time I have I've been hurt. But once you've done it once, once you've stood up when everybody else is backing down -- you learn that you can. Maybe you learn to be a man.

I'm not a perfect Catholic. I teeter on atheism. But I can rationalize my beliefs even without a belief in an afterlife. You see I can believe in "god", believe that there is "good" and "bad" and a "better" and "worse" way to live life. And sometimes I get a bit frustrated when people focus excessively on "Christ" -- but are very vague when it comes to moral beliefs (Abortion, divorce, promiscuity, monogamy, etc). [i]"Not everybody who says God God will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of the Father."
[/i]

I'd like to get married, I'd like to have kids. I'd like to live my life for my wife and kids -- and focus less on myself. I don't want to compete with my wife (That's too much of a self-centered insecure relationship. Leave that for the guys with the inferiority complexes). I want to find a woman that I can love and trust -- and stick up for, literally with my life, if it ever came to that. But trust is a VERY important issue. I think that people that fool around before a marriage are very likely to fool around after they get married.

Yes I am looking for an old-fashioned Catholic woman who would like to raise the children. Rather than committing her life to a job and making money.. I think a mother is the only one who can really do a good job of raising her children. And if you have kids then the well-being of your kids is more important than focusing on a career and money. The money can't buy you the well-being of your kids.

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1818850' date='Mar 28 2009, 04:50 PM']I know a lot of faithful, orthodox Catholics with whom I have little else in common and therefore I find we don't "mingle" all that effectively. We can get along because we extend each other a little grace and humility, but I get along better with non-Catholics with whom I share other things in common, and get along best with Christians and Catholics when we share other stuff in common. Without those other interests, life together can be kinda dry.[/quote]

Honestly I've found the Catholics to be a tough group to "socialize" with. Especially when compared to the Protestants. However the last "National Singles Conference" was a pretty good experience. And even though I am a member of various sports, and social groups, that are non-Catholic I still think that Catholic singles groups are a good idea.

I'm going to try talking to the Monsignor tomorrow about starting a "Singles Ministry". My idea is to form a Catholic singles ministry that would focus mainly on charitable work. We could get together for various projects. We have the time, we have the money, and we're a little too self-centered so it gives us a chance to focus on others rather than ourselves. And it would give us a chance to meet and get to know other single Catholics -- women and men.

Edited March 29, 2009 by southern california guy

[Hassan]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1818954' date='Mar 28 2009, 07:24 PM']I'm not denying any of this. I fully agree with the Church. Her foolishness far exceeds my wisdom.

On the other hand, I also know from the bad experiences of faithful Christian friends who are getting divorces (along with the success of Catholic mixed marriages) that the ingredients of a happy marriage run far deeper than religious affiliation, as important as that one is. I would argue that for the success of a marriage, being your spouse's best friend is more important than being Catholic. I balance that by acknowledging that friendship with God and our neighbors is the purpose of Catholicism, because God laid down his life for us while we were yet sinners, so that we could join in his fellowship and share in his glory. Thus, friendship and "being Catholic" couldn't be more intimately related.[/quote]


It's not all about the parents. People rarely take account of what a toll a mixed marriage takes on the children. I love my parents but it was very confusing growing up. I don't want to go into it because it's personal but it can really be tough on the children even when the parents resolve to raise the children religion x and really do their best. I don't want to generalize from my experience, but it's something to remember if you are planning to get married. Not to mention the toll it takes on the parent who does not get to raise their children in their faith tradution.

I think *gasp* the Church swows a lot of wisdom in approaching this with great caution.

[southern california guy]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1819176' date='Mar 28 2009, 08:51 PM']It's not all about the parents. People rarely take account of what a toll a mixed marriage takes on the children. I love my parents but it was very confusing growing up. I don't want to go into it because it's personal but it can really be tough on the children even when the parents resolve to raise the children religion x and really do their best. I don't want to generalize from my experience, but it's something to remember if you are planning to get married. Not to mention the toll it takes on the parent who does not get to raise their children in their faith tradution.

I think *gasp* the Church swows a lot of wisdom in approaching this with great caution.[/quote]

My older sister married a Libyan guy that she met at the University of Washington. She did change religions and is now Muslim. But I know what you mean about mixed marriages putting stresses on the children. Especially now that the Muslim religion has come under such attack. Their son Usama, has been given a very hard time at school because his name is so close to Osama. And one of the biggest religious, or cultural differences, that I see between my sister and her husband is that he seems to have a bit of a double standard when it comes to morality for women and men. He seems to be of the mind that "boys are boys" and "men will be men"... And that men will go through this period of wild behavior (promiscuity?) whereas women must conform to higher standards. So he's almost overly protective of their daughter while overly under protective of his sons.

But honestly my sister basically knew this when she married him.

My youngest sister married a Protestant guy who became a childrens pastor, and then later a youth pastor, at a protestant church (Then he got laid off...). My sister never really converted to his religion however they seem to have the most different viewpoint of anybody in the family. And she naturally now seems to see things the way her husband does. And that is that "God has a plan" for them -- and everything that they do in life is done because god wants them too.. For instance her husband likes cars -- so god is always finding him new cars to buy, and helping him sell old cars. Of course how many cars do they really need -- especially now that he's unemployed and trying to start a business..?

And how do you argue with somebody -- who's doing the will of god?

Perhaps part of the conflict comes from the families of each parent who have different views on things. So if one of my nieces or nephews asks me a question about religion, what do I tell them? I suppose that I can tell them "This is what I believe.." But you're right it's a little tough on the kids. However ultimately I'm of the opinion that the most important issue is a common belief in core moral principles. And that's more important than marrying in the same culture or religion. You turned out pretty well, right.

Edited March 29, 2009 by southern california guy

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='southern california guy' post='1819083' date='Mar 28 2009, 10:54 PM']Honestly I've found the Catholics to be a tough group to "socialize" with. Especially when compared to the Protestants. However the last "National Singles Conference" was a pretty good experience. And even though I am a member of various sports, and social groups, that are non-Catholic I still think that Catholic singles groups are a good idea.[/quote]

I've had the same experience trying to socialize with Catholics, Baptists, and several groups of college/young adult peers. It seems to be a common experience in our generation, perhaps because we change jobs and cities so frequently and have more of an independent streak that comes with delaying marriage. The only thing I know to do is to keep trying... I finally formed some closer Catholic friends by playing Ultimate frisbee with a group here, but that was over two years after I entered the Church (nearly three years if you count RCIA).

[quote name='southern california guy' post='1819083' date='Mar 28 2009, 10:54 PM']I'm going to try talking to the Monsignor tomorrow about starting a "Singles Ministry". My idea is to form a Catholic singles ministry that would focus mainly on charitable work. We could get together for various projects. We have the time, we have the money, and we're a little too self-centered so it gives us a chance to focus on others rather than ourselves. And it would give us a chance to meet and get to know other single Catholics -- women and men.[/quote]

That's obviously an admirable idea... I just don't see why it has to be a singles group. If a married person or couple wants to join in your ministry, are you going to deny them because they aren't single? They may not have as much time, but they bring other strengths like stability and a greater sense of commitment, along with their wisdom gained from experience. Why not welcome religious or priests to work with you too? All these people were single at one point, so if the goal is to help singles grow and discern their vocation, shouldn't you involve those who have walked that path successfully?