Catholic Singles -- Why Such A Hot Topic In The Church?

[southern california guy]

[quote name='Norseman82' post='1815722' date='Mar 24 2009, 05:55 PM']Remember the saying "Why do people rob banks? Because that's where the money is at"?

One thing about NCSC is that the mindset among the people in charge is that they recognize that people desire to be married and instead of the usual "you need to accept happiness on your own before you can be married" the conference is geared around Catholic topics relevant to singles and which actually serve as ways to overcome things that may stand in the way of a successful marriage (not to mention the social activities, including dancing) so that you DON'T have to set up camp there but instead perhaps find someone and move on to the next destination in life.

I'll tell you what. You're 28 (so you'll be 30 soon). If you haven't found someone in time for the next NCSC conference in Chicago, send me an email if you wish and you can pick my brain on the NCSC.[/quote]

I've always felt people were being absurd when they claimed "you need to accept happiness on your own before you can be married" or "Don't think that finding the right woman is going to make you happier and better adjusted."

It's a little like telling somebody that's new to an area -- and has no friends yet -- "Don't expect to feel more comfortable here once you start making good friends" or "Don't expect friendships to make you happy. You have to find that happiness as a loner!"

[Norseman82]

[quote name='southern california guy' post='1816017' date='Mar 25 2009, 12:14 AM']I've always felt people were being absurd when they claimed "you need to accept happiness on your own before you can be married" or "Don't think that finding the right woman is going to make you happier and better adjusted."

It's a little like telling somebody that's new to an area -- and has no friends yet -- "Don't expect to feel more comfortable here once you start making good friends" or "Don't expect friendships to make you happy. You have to find that happiness as a loner!"[/quote]

I agree its absurd and possibly is a product of the older divorced female crowd that were burned by their divorces and may not be eligible to be remarried or, if they are, they may be hesitant due to their bad experiences in their previous marriage, so they possibly have no choice but to try to make the best of being alone. But since people like you and I do not have such canonical impediments, that does not apply to us. Besides, if I could handle life alone with no wife and kids, that means I could handle lifelong celibacy and there is a chance I'd be wearing a collar by now, right?

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='Norseman82' post='1815722' date='Mar 24 2009, 08:55 PM']I'll tell you what. You're 28 (so you'll be 30 soon). If you haven't found someone in time for the next NCSC conference in Chicago, send me an email if you wish and you can pick my brain on the NCSC.[/quote]

Still, it's got "Singles" in the name and that's too much of a turn off for me. If it was a Catholic conference for adults of all ages and vocations or geared to young adults (married couples deal with many of the same issues as singles, and I'll bet seminarians do too) or if it was a Eucharistic Congress, I would be there. Speaking of which, the Atlanta Eucharistic Congress is one event I'd love to attend one of these years.


[quote name='southern california guy' post='1816017' date='Mar 25 2009, 01:14 AM']I've always felt people were being absurd when they claimed "you need to accept happiness on your own before you can be married" or "Don't think that finding the right woman is going to make you happier and better adjusted."

It's a little like telling somebody that's new to an area -- and has no friends yet -- "Don't expect to feel more comfortable here once you start making good friends" or "Don't expect friendships to make you happy. You have to find that happiness as a loner!"[/quote]

Loneliness is directly contrary to the Christian life and vocation. Everyone needs friends, even if it's only two or three. Not everyone needs to be married. Still, you're right that for many of those who are called to marriage, it does bring more fulfillment and purpose to their lives, but at the same time the man and woman need to bring something of themselves into the marriage. All of us need to find fulfillment in Christ and whatever he calls us to outside of being single/married/religious/ordained.

To adjust the metaphor a bit, you can't force a vocation upon yourself just like you can't force a friendship between two people. There needs to be some sense of commonality or foundation on which to build a strong friendship, and strong friendship is the foundation of a strong marriage.


[quote name='Norseman82' post='1816066' date='Mar 25 2009, 03:59 AM']I agree its absurd and possibly is a product of the older divorced female crowd that were burned by their divorces and may not be eligible to be remarried or, if they are, they may be hesitant due to their bad experiences in their previous marriage, so they possibly have no choice but to try to make the best of being alone. But since people like you and I do not have such canonical impediments, that does not apply to us. Besides, if I could handle life alone with no wife and kids, that means I could handle lifelong celibacy and there is a chance I'd be wearing a collar by now, right?[/quote]

We may want to be a bit more sensitive towards our "older divorced" sisters. It's just as easy to lump us single young adults into a group and start making false assumptions based on a few experiences or observations.

Second point, seminarians and priests need to be men who can handle the responsibilities and duties of being a husband and father. As a fellow single person, I think it's way too easy to meander through life without a wife and kids. I do a lot of stuff I couldn't get away with if I had those responsibilities, which is largely to my spiritual detriment. Comparing the bachelor life to the priesthood is like comparing the freshman year of college to the presentation of a doctoral thesis.

[Norseman82]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1816270' date='Mar 25 2009, 03:11 PM']We may want to be a bit more sensitive towards our "older divorced" sisters. It's just as easy to lump us single young adults into a group and start making false assumptions based on a few experiences or observations.[/quote]

I know what I've seen and I stand by what I say.

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1816270' date='Mar 25 2009, 03:11 PM']Comparing the bachelor life to the priesthood is like comparing the freshman year of college to the presentation of a doctoral thesis.[/quote]

Both bachelor life and the priesthood require celibacy. I stand by what I've said.

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='Norseman82' post='1816441' date='Mar 25 2009, 08:25 PM']Both bachelor life and the priesthood require celibacy. I stand by what I've said.[/quote]

A lot of the time, marriage does too

[picchick]

[quote name='southern california guy' post='1816017' date='Mar 25 2009, 12:14 AM']I've always felt people were being absurd when they claimed "you need to accept happiness on your own before you can be married" or "Don't think that finding the right woman is going to make you happier and better adjusted."

It's a little like telling somebody that's new to an area -- and has no friends yet -- "Don't expect to feel more comfortable here once you start making good friends" or "Don't expect friendships to make you happy. You have to find that happiness as a loner!"[/quote]

In a way you do need to be happy on your own. I am happy on my own. BUT...that doesn't mean I am not seeking someone to be married to. And when I find that person I will be happier. I think that maybe we are seeing this phrase in two different ways.

It seems that you are viewing this phrase as "In order to be married, you need to be happy being by yourself first."
I am viewing this phrase as, "In order to be married, I need to be happy with life and with myself and who I am." I see it this way because who wants to date someone unhappy with who they are? Furthermore, relationships are hard to deal with. You are taking two separate people and seeing if they are compatible with each other. Bringing in baggage about lack of self confidence and unhappiness with life in general is not going to help things. Yes, we need to rely on one another but no one wants to date someone who is unhappy unless they are with someone.

Being and accepting happiness on your own does not mean being satisfied with your current state.

[quote name='Norseman82' post='1816066' date='Mar 25 2009, 02:59 AM']Besides, if I could handle life alone with no wife and kids, that means I could handle lifelong celibacy and there is a chance I'd be wearing a collar by now, right?[/quote]

No. I've gotten into this with you before though. I totally disagree with that. It takes special graces for both.

I, like Louiseville, am turned off by groups/conferences that state "singles" in the title. Yeah, it might make it easier for you to find a single woman/man for marriage but in MY EXPERIENCE, those people jump way too quick into the marriage idea. What do I mean by that? I want to date people and see if we fit before discussing marriage. I want to eventually get married sure. But I see and feel a difference when I dated people who attended from these "single" get togethers and from outside those "single" get togethers.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1816270' date='Mar 25 2009, 04:11 PM']We may want to be a bit more sensitive towards our "older divorced" sisters. It's just as easy to lump us single young adults into a group and start making false assumptions based on a few experiences or observations.[/quote]

Many "older divorced sisters" thru no fault of their own thru no-fault divorce were dumped by their husbands after putting them thru college grad school etc. They had no plans of being alone for the rest of their lives, so you can expect some resentment and bitterness.

[southern california guy]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1817019' date='Mar 26 2009, 11:19 AM']Many "older divorced sisters" thru no fault of their own thru no-fault divorce were dumped by their husbands after putting them thru college grad school etc. They had no plans of being alone for the rest of their lives, so you can expect some resentment and bitterness.[/quote]

I thought that the Catholic church is basically opposed to divorce and that divorcee's aren't eligible to marry in the Catholic church (Yeah I know that a lot of divorces are "annuled" by the Catholic church).

So the Catholic church doesn't believe in remarrying divorcee's. Why? Do you agree with the Catholic church?

[southern california guy]

[quote name='picchick' post='1816945' date='Mar 26 2009, 10:10 AM']I, like Louiseville, am turned off by groups/conferences that state "singles" in the title. Yeah, it might make it easier for you to find a single woman/man for marriage but in MY EXPERIENCE, those people jump way too quick into the marriage idea. What do I mean by that? I want to date people and see if we fit before discussing marriage. I want to eventually get married sure. But I see and feel a difference when I dated people who attended from these "single" get togethers and from outside those "single" get togethers.[/quote]

Have you ever been to a "singles" get together? And I mean a BIG one.

In the past I've spotted women that stood by themselves at Mass -- and they had no kids. I thought for sure that they were single, and I wanted to figure out an opportunity to meet them. Then one day -- their husband is back! (He either had a job where he travelled a lot, or he was in the military and got deployed. I see this a lot around here because I live very near to Camp Pendleton the Marine base).

The nice thing about a singles get together is that you don't have to worry about whether the people are married are not. You know that they're single and looking. And you can meet people there -- that you might want to date later. It still takes time to get to know a person. I think that it's a good idea to date for at least a year and a half -- like Dr Laura suggests.

Discussing feeling happy on your own, there have been times when I had low self-esteem, felt down. And then I met a girl that I really got along well with. It would change my total outlook on life!

What kept me from getting married? Honestly at the time I wasn't ready to get married. I was in college, working on a degree, and barely supporting myself -- or later renting from my parents as I finished college. And she was VERY ready to get married....

Ironically now the dilema I've been running into is the issue of having kids.. Very few of the older successful women that I date want to be stay at home moms. And many don't even want to have kids at all! I still do.

[Socrates]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1815445' date='Mar 24 2009, 09:34 AM']Oh, I know the NCSC isn't run like that. A few friends of mine went to the one in Chicago this year. I was responding more to southern california's post describing the singles events in his area, which offer a good example of why I prefer to steer clear of anything specifically aimed at singles. It's hard to say exactly why I steer clear of them, but my gut instinct tells me not to go. NCSC happens to be the most prominent example. Funny thing is, your description only reinforced my decision to avoid that conference too... why would I want to socialize with a bunch of 35-year-old women? Gosh, I remember when my mother was 35.

Being single is like being in college... it's fun for a while and you have certain privileges and freedoms that you don't have in other phases of life, but it's just a phase. If you don't graduate at some point, you become "one of those people" aimlessly meandering because they love their lifestyle too much to sacrifice it for a greater vocation. Attending a singles event identifies me with singleness... as a man discerning his vocation, I believe it's the worst thing I could do for myself. I believe parishes and dioceses should minister to all adults -- married and single -- as adults. I'll attend a men's ministry or retreat with married and single men, or a conference or talk on some other topic with other adults, assist in pro-life ministry or a youth conference with other adults, because I'm a grown man (or trying to be, anyway) and while I'm not always that good at it, I'm at least trying to move in the right direction. Attending a singles event feels like a defining turning point in the wrong direction. I'm a sojourner in bachelordom... I don't want to set up camp here.[/quote]
Attending "singles" events or joining singles websites, etc., does NOT mean one has "set up camp" as single, or indicate a desire for perpetual bachelorhood.

These are merely some means of facilitating meeting Catholic single women, so hopefully one CAN move on from being single. For instance, Ave Maria Singles is simply a means of meeting Catholics of the opposite sex for the purpose of dating and discerning marriage. It's not intended as a site for people who wish to remain perpetually single, or wish to make "singleness" the definition of their existence.

I'm not saying everyone should join singles groups, sites, etc., and if you find a woman some other way, great. However, I don't think it's right to dismiss or condemn Catholic "singles" groups and activities in themselves. One shouldn't confine himself to such things to avoid other interaction, but, if done right, they can help facilitate meeting eligible Catholic people of the opposite sex, something that's not always easy to do in today's world.

I think like everything else, they can be done well or badly, and can be abused, but I don't think having ministries or activities for single Catholics is a bad idea in and of itself.

[Socrates]

[quote name='southern california guy' post='1816017' date='Mar 24 2009, 11:14 PM']I've always felt people were being absurd when they claimed "you need to accept happiness on your own before you can be married" or "Don't think that finding the right woman is going to make you happier and better adjusted."

It's a little like telling somebody that's new to an area -- and has no friends yet -- "Don't expect to feel more comfortable here once you start making good friends" or "Don't expect friendships to make you happy. You have to find that happiness as a loner!"[/quote]
I think there's some truth to "you need to accept happiness on your own before you can be married," etc., insofar as no one wants to date or marry someone who is self-pitying, miserable, or needy.

However, such lines are stupid if used to discourage people from looking for a mate.

It's a little like saying "you need to accept happiness in hunger before you can eat."

I was once told by a woman who said she didn't want to further date me, "You need to embrace your singleness" (whatever new-age mush that's supposed to mean), and heard perpetually non-committal women lecture piously on the "gift of contentment."

It seems that such talk is usually from women who seem unwilling to commit to anybody (in addition to the aforementioned older divorced crowd).

I think there's a happy medium between needy/desperate and overly-picky/non-committal.

[Norseman82]

[quote name='picchick' post='1816945' date='Mar 26 2009, 12:10 PM']No. I've gotten into this with you before though. I totally disagree with that. It takes special graces for both.[/quote]

What I am referring to is the fact that there are seminarians and others discerning priesthood who realize that they cannot handle lifelong celibacy and as a result quit the seminary or decide not to apply in the first place.

[Nihil Obstat]

If I were single and really starting to worry about finding someone to marry, I wouldn't go to singles events. I'd just get more involved with everything. Inside and outside the parish.

I think that's an easier way to get to know someone. With a singles event isn't there certain expectations and preconceptions?

[Norseman82]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1817622' date='Mar 27 2009, 12:58 AM']If I were single and really starting to worry about finding someone to marry, I wouldn't go to singles events. I'd just get more involved with everything. Inside and outside the parish.

I think that's an easier way to get to know someone. With a singles event isn't there certain expectations and preconceptions?[/quote]

It all depends. Yes, at singles events there are expectations and if you don't find someone, that is a big letdown.

However, unless the parish has a lot of people of the opposite half of humanity in your age range there, getting involved inside the parish won't be any better.

If the singles events are run well, like the NCSC is, it will be like Socrates mentioned, a place for serious Catholics who are serious about getting married to congregate, because like he said, it is extremely difficult to find a serious, practicing Catholic spouse these days. Any help to gather us together to socialize will help.

Edited March 27, 2009 by Norseman82

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Norseman82' post='1817630' date='Mar 27 2009, 12:11 AM']It all depends. Yes, at singles events there are expectations and if you don't find someone, that is a big letdown.

However, unless the parish has a lot of people of the opposite half of humanity in your age range there, getting involved inside the parish won't be any better.

If the singles events are run well, like the NCSC is, it will be like Socrates mentioned, a place for serious Catholics who are serious about getting married to congregate, because like he said, it is extremely difficult to find a serious, practicing Catholic spouse these days. Any help to gather us together to socialize will help.[/quote]
There are other places to be involved than the parish too. I mean there's no way you're going to meet every potential spouse as single's events. I'll bet a lot of them would think like me, and just not want anything to do with single's stuff.
There's a time and place for them of course, and I know it helps some people, but it's good to realize that it's not the only way.