Catholic Singles -- Why Such A Hot Topic In The Church?

[southern california guy]

In college I got involved with many different "Christian" clubs -- because they were full of singles. The Neuman Club wasn't quite the same at the Universities I attended.

When I lived in Utah the Neuman Club was very small. I tried to post a calendar of "Utah Catholic Singles" activities, and the Priest and Nun would quickly pull it down and tear it up. I actually got into a fight with them over it and dropped out of the RCIA class that I was attending (I hadn't gotten confirmed back when I was in High School). The nun argued that the singles events couldn't be advertised because they weren't being overseen by a priest. And she argued that there were already "Young Adult" activities. Just not at that particular church!!

Last year -- for the first time! -- I went to a Catholic Singles event! The National Catholic Singles Conference in La Jolla CA. There was also one held in Chicago. Of course this wasn't an event that was organized by the Catholic church -- as opposed to singles events organized by various Protestant churches. A women named Anastasia North started these conferences.

For me at least it was great to be able to finally meet and socialize with other single Catholics -- in an official singles conference. And the conference had a pretty large turnout. But this sort of thing seems to be frowned upon by the Catholic church. And it makes me wonder why the Catholic church can have official homosexual ministries (Are they still holding "Dignity" masses in Washington state?) and official divorced ministries -- but not regular singles ones.

I've tried Catholic Match, and Ave Maria Singles, but the online personals seem a bit limited (In case you're curious I'm "Richard-55364" on Catholic Match, and I'm "Richard Member #21519" on Ave Maria.) Anyway it seems a bit limited and I'd really much prefer to just socialize and get to know other Catholic singles in a more casual setting. Like through official Catholic singles socials and charity work -- if such a thing existed.

So why does the Catholic church take such a defensive position towards singles -- when the Protestants don't? Perhaps some Protestant groups do, but it seems like every protestant group I check out has a "singles ministry". Why don't the Catholics? Why do there seem to be so many homosexuals in the Catholic church? Since this is the "Debate Table" -- and it's supposed to be controversial -- is there a connection??

Edited March 17, 2009 by southern california guy

[Nihil Obstat]

I'm just going off the top of my head, but maybe we as a collective Church consider the mainly Protestant oriented singles events to be lacking in strong morality?

[CatherineM]

I've never experienced any negativity around singles events in the church.

[Maggyie]

I have never noticed any connection between there being a ministry to homosexuals and a singles ministry. If anything the ministry to homosexuals is more rare and more of a "touchy" subject than singles groups, at least in my part of the country. I also don't think there are more homosexuals in the Catholic church than other churches. Maybe it's just where you are in Cali?

[LouisvilleFan]

Your experience will be different depending on what area of the country, diocese, and parish you happen to be looking for other singles. For example, here in Louisville there are several parishes that reach out to young adults along with a monthly gathering similar to Theology on Tap, but homosexuals here trying to live a chaste lifestyle will struggle to find support through a group like Courage (the group Dignity does not promote Church teaching, where Courage fully supports the Church). The National Catholic Singles Conferences in Chicago and San Diego also attract some very good Catholic speakers, so I would hardly say they are not supported by the Church. Theology on Tap attracts a largely singles crowd. The Frassati Society is another excellent ministry (they're based in Indianapolis). But you're right that young adults are easily overlooked, especially being in that sort of limbo between Confirmation/First Communion and Marriage, but it is getting better. The one asset we have is the freedom and ability to do something about it ourselves. We are not subject to our parents' permission to go out or stuck in a nursing home... most of us have the means to do what we want at this time of our lives. Why wait for "the Church" to establish a young adult ministry? Maybe we should roll up our sleeves and get to work at it. Or maybe it's finding some other form of ministry in the pro-life cause, inner city, overseas missions, or whatever God could be calling you to.

Edited March 17, 2009 by LouisvilleFan

[jmjtina]

we have a young adult ministry in our diocese who is in charge of putting up Theology on Tap and Retreats.

I agree, it differs from diocese to diocese.

[Socrates]

[quote name='southern california guy' post='1809491' date='Mar 16 2009, 11:34 PM']In college I got involved with many different "Christian" clubs -- because they were full of singles. The Neuman Club wasn't quite the same at the Universities I attended.

When I lived in Utah the Neuman Club was very small. I tried to post a calendar of "Utah Catholic Singles" activities, and the Priest and Nun would quickly pull it down and tear it up. I actually got into a fight with them over it and dropped out of the RCIA class that I was attending (I hadn't gotten confirmed back when I was in High School). The nun argued that the singles events couldn't be advertised because they weren't being overseen by a priest. And she argued that there were already "Young Adult" activities. Just not at that particular church!!

Last year -- for the first time! -- I went to a Catholic Singles event! The National Catholic Singles Conference in La Jolla CA. There was also one held in Chicago. Of course this wasn't an event that was organized by the Catholic church -- as opposed to singles events organized by various Protestant churches. A women named Anastasia North started these conferences.

For me at least it was great to be able to finally meet and socialize with other single Catholics -- in an official singles conference. And the conference had a pretty large turnout. But this sort of thing seems to be frowned upon by the Catholic church. And it makes me wonder why the Catholic church can have official homosexual ministries (Are they still holding "Dignity" masses in Washington state?) and official divorced ministries -- but not regular singles ones.

I've tried Catholic Match, and Ave Maria Singles, but the online personals seem a bit limited (In case you're curious I'm "Richard-55364" on Catholic Match, and I'm "Richard Member #21519" on Ave Maria.) Anyway it seems a bit limited and I'd really much prefer to just socialize and get to know other Catholic singles in a more casual setting. Like through official Catholic singles socials and charity work -- if such a thing existed.

So why does the Catholic church take such a defensive position towards singles -- when the Protestants don't? Perhaps some Protestant groups do, but it seems like every protestant group I check out has a "singles ministry". Why don't the Catholics? Why do there seem to be so many homosexuals in the Catholic church? Since this is the "Debate Table" -- and it's supposed to be controversial -- is there a connection??[/quote]
The Catholic Church (as a Church) doesn't officially "frown upon" singles groups. It's not like the Vatican has issued any official statement on singles groups or anything.
Like others pointed out, it all depends on the local pastor.

There are about a half dozen or so singles groups in my local diocese, though due to distance (they're based in the city, and I'm out in the boonies) and my own laziness, I'd never gotten around to attending their events.
As I related in another thread, I was involved in a local Catholic singles group some years ago, but there was limited interest and participation (and many of the participants were in the older divorced crowd).
I think that adult singles are easy for pastors to overlook or dismiss. I know in my own parish, there are not a whole lot of unmarried adults over 25 or so, and many of them have no interest in "singles" activities. The parish has an active teen group and lots of related activities, and a lot of family-oriented stuff.
Also, I think there's a certain amount of thought in clerical circles that people unmarried over age thirty or so have either "resisted their vocation" or are "called to a single vocation." (But I'm kind of talking out of my rear here). The idea of a "single vocation" is itself the source of quite a lot of controversy. (Just ask Norseman82.)

I agree with Maggie that the prevalence of homosexuals and homosexual groups is probably more a California/Left Coast thing than a Catholic thing. From what I hear, sadly, generally the Church in CA is pretty [mod]Language. --Era Might[/mod]. (One reason I don't want to live there.)
I know that out in these parts, a homosexual ministry would definitely be the cause of a heck of a lot more controversy and strife than a singles group.

And "Dignity," as was pointed out, is NOT an official ministry of the Church, but a dissident group opposed to Church moral teaching (they say homosexuality is ok). Unfortunately, some liberal bishops allow it. Any homosexual group should be working to help members overcome their disorder and lead chaste lives.

In any case, I'm aware of no official hostility to "singles ministry" by the Catholic Church, though it is something many agree should be worked on more than is presently.

[Saint Therese]

I think it comes from watching the Simpsons and eating too much peanutbutter.

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='Maggie' post='1809650' date='Mar 17 2009, 09:28 AM']I have never noticed any connection between there being a ministry to homosexuals and a singles ministry. If anything the ministry to homosexuals is more rare and more of a "touchy" subject than singles groups, at least in my part of the country. I also don't think there are more homosexuals in the Catholic church than other churches. Maybe it's just where you are in Cali?[/quote]

I think there could be a connection by virtue of the cities that singles are attracted to are often the same cities where you find an active homosexual presence. Austin, Atlanta, and Nashville come to mind.

[southern california guy]

It seems to be "understood", by Catholics, that the "Young Adults" is secretly a Catholic singles group. But it has age limits 20 - 39.

I'm over 39 and I'm not allowed to attend the "Young Adults" talks and get togethers (The women who runs it comes around and asks the guys their ages and "kicks out" the guys over 39). I'd love to hear the talks and discussions that they give called "Theology of the body" (I'd love to know what the other Catholics believe -- beyond what is being taught).

Now there is a 35-55 year old "Adult Community" -- set up for the guys who are getting kicked out of the "Young Adults". I was told that they let 35 year olds come because it's okay for 40 year old men to socialize with and date 35 year olds. This would seem to be an admission that it is a "singles" group as well, however the lady that runs it told me that she got a call from a guy who asked "Are very many of these women free to marry within the Catholic church?". And she said she told him "No.. but it's not a singles group!".

Since I'm slightly anonymous here I'll be more open than I would dare to be in person. I think that the people who really want the groups segregated are the older divorced women -- 45 to 60. Honestly they're a bit over the hill and most of the guys around 40 would mainly socialize with the women in their 30's given the chance. Like me they've never been married and still have the desire to get married, have kids, and raise a family.

The older divorced women resent that and they say that it makes them sick to see 40 year old guys "hitting on" younger women (Of course "hitting on" is a basically a derogatory vulgar term that is used to describe what guys do in bars when they're trying to "pick up" women). So to prevent this they have enforced the age segregation -- and they're the ones running the groups. The conflict, that I've noticed is, that the women tend to be intimidated when the group is run by guys -- and fewer women come.. So unless the group is run by women you won't tend to get many women coming (And ironically groups run by women tend to have more women than men attend)

I was part of an unofficial "Catholic singles club" when I first moved down here to San Diego. There was a very personable and good looking women in the group. She was almost exactly the same age as me. Her female friends used to come to the group, and even the guys who she used to date (Who were actually a pretty nice bunch). The people in the group were mainly in their thirties and forties -- with a few older and a few younger attending occasionally. Well.. I started seriously dating her and we stopped going to the club activities. And apparently her female friends did as well... And what ultimately came between us was that she didn't really want to have kids.. She was much more career oriented and all of her energy was going into trying to get a job in the medical field she was in. Anyway, after we broke up I tried to go back to the Catholic Singles Club -- only to find that it had broken up as well....

Edited March 23, 2009 by southern california guy

[LouisvilleFan]

You've done a good job of explaining why I stay away from the National Catholic Singles Conference, not to mention dating web sites, and pretty much anything targeted at singles. If they want to run it like a POW camp, the heck with 'em. There are plenty of other things to do in a city like San Diego besides being holed up in a Golden Girls church group.

I have been involved with a couple young adult groups... never too actively involved, but when it comes to an activity like a Bible study or serving in a soup kitchen, I'll join up. The problem with young adult ministry is it shouldn't exist. The Church [i]is[/i] adult ministry. The other group was focused on pro-life work, so they had an actual purpose for existing, which helps to alleviate the social awkwardness. But neither seems to be attracting much interest outside of their clique and I think part of it may be that parishes and dioceses should be organizing these ministries.

[Norseman82]

I think part of the problem is that the state of marriage itself is in a shambles, and that is causing many people to be skeptical of marriage. It is also increasing the ranks of divorced people. I'm not against ministering to divorced people, but what once was the rarity in the Catholic Church is now becoming the norm and singles ministry sometimes becomes oriented toward (and sometimes dominated by) them to the detriment of the never-marrieds (at least that is what I have observed). And if you mix together a healthy young (pre-AARP) male seeking to get married with an older woman bitter over her divorce, run for cover.

[Norseman82]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1814911' date='Mar 23 2009, 03:02 PM']You've done a good job of explaining why I stay away from the National Catholic Singles Conference, not to mention dating web sites, and pretty much anything targeted at singles. If they want to run it like a POW camp, .... There are plenty of other things to do in a city like San Diego besides being holed up in a Golden Girls church group.[/quote]

I don't know if you've attended the National Catholic Singles Conferences in the past, but let me assure you, it is NOT a Golden Girls church group. Even though I noticed more women older than me this year as opposed to when I first attended, the largest number of women appeared to be in their thirties. In fact, Anastasia, who runs the conference with her family, is about 30 herself. It is NOT run like a POW camp, and people are free to socialize with whomever they want.

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='Norseman82' post='1815303' date='Mar 24 2009, 01:21 AM']I don't know if you've attended the National Catholic Singles Conferences in the past, but let me assure you, it is NOT a Golden Girls church group. Even though I noticed more women older than me this year as opposed to when I first attended, the largest number of women appeared to be in their thirties. In fact, Anastasia, who runs the conference with her family, is about 30 herself. It is NOT run like a POW camp, and people are free to socialize with whomever they want.[/quote]

Oh, I know the NCSC isn't run like that. A few friends of mine went to the one in Chicago this year. I was responding more to southern california's post describing the singles events in his area, which offer a good example of why I prefer to steer clear of anything specifically aimed at singles. It's hard to say exactly why I steer clear of them, but my gut instinct tells me not to go. NCSC happens to be the most prominent example. Funny thing is, your description only reinforced my decision to avoid that conference too... why would I want to socialize with a bunch of 35-year-old women? Gosh, I remember when my mother was 35.

Being single is like being in college... it's fun for a while and you have certain privileges and freedoms that you don't have in other phases of life, but it's just a phase. If you don't graduate at some point, you become "one of those people" aimlessly meandering because they love their lifestyle too much to sacrifice it for a greater vocation. Attending a singles event identifies me with singleness... as a man discerning his vocation, I believe it's the worst thing I could do for myself. I believe parishes and dioceses should minister to all adults -- married and single -- as adults. I'll attend a men's ministry or retreat with married and single men, or a conference or talk on some other topic with other adults, assist in pro-life ministry or a youth conference with other adults, because I'm a grown man (or trying to be, anyway) and while I'm not always that good at it, I'm at least trying to move in the right direction. Attending a singles event feels like a defining turning point in the wrong direction. I'm a sojourner in bachelordom... I don't want to set up camp here.

[Norseman82]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1815445' date='Mar 24 2009, 10:34 AM']Being single is like being in college... it's fun for a while and you have certain privileges and freedoms that you don't have in other phases of life, but it's just a phase. If you don't graduate at some point, you become "one of those people" aimlessly meandering because they love their lifestyle too much to sacrifice it for a greater vocation. Attending a singles event identifies me with singleness... as a man discerning his vocation, I believe it's the worst thing I could do for myself. I believe parishes and dioceses should minister to all adults -- married and single -- as adults. I'll attend a men's ministry or retreat with married and single men, or a conference or talk on some other topic with other adults, assist in pro-life ministry or a youth conference with other adults, because I'm a grown man (or trying to be, anyway) and while I'm not always that good at it, I'm at least trying to move in the right direction. Attending a singles event feels like a defining turning point in the wrong direction. I'm a sojourner in bachelordom... I don't want to set up camp here.[/quote]

Remember the saying "Why do people rob banks? Because that's where the money is at"?

One thing about NCSC is that the mindset among the people in charge is that they recognize that people desire to be married and instead of the usual "you need to accept happiness on your own before you can be married" the conference is geared around Catholic topics relevant to singles and which actually serve as ways to overcome things that may stand in the way of a successful marriage (not to mention the social activities, including dancing) so that you DON'T have to set up camp there but instead perhaps find someone and move on to the next destination in life.

I'll tell you what. You're 28 (so you'll be 30 soon). If you haven't found someone in time for the next NCSC conference in Chicago, send me an email if you wish and you can pick my brain on the NCSC.

Edited March 24, 2009 by Norseman82