Why The Age Segregation?

[southern california guy]

I've only come back to the Catholic church recently and I find it strange and confusing compared to some of the protestant churches I've been part of in the past.

I went to the National Catholic Singles Conference, in La Jolla California, last year and I thoroughly enjoyed it. The speakers seemed to be coming from an old fashioned conservative Catholic viewpoint and I felt that I got something positive out of the talks and socializing with other Catholics. I felt like [i]This really is my religion. I really am Catholic![/i]

However I'm single and more than anything I'd like to find the right women to marry. So I started attending a church that supposedly had quite a singles ministry. As it turned out the "singles" ministry is the "Young Adults". They argue that it's not really a singles ministry -- but it is.. And they have a HUGE young adults group. Lots of dinners, lots of dances, socials, etc.

The problem is that I'm over forty, and I wish I'd discovered this church a couple of years ago. Now there's also an "Adult" group -- for ages 35 through 55. So I started going to that. But it seems to really be a covert singles group for divorcees in their fifties -- with grown kids.. And only a handful of people attend the activities. I've found that the men and women around forty are "cheating" and still attending the Young Adults activities -- but the women who runs it has started 'policeing' it and kicking the guys out.

And some of the women and men in the "Adult Community" are over 55 as well. My feeling is that they should get rid of the upper and lower age limit and let any "adult" over 21 (Because alchohol is served come). They argue that if they did that they'd have guys in their forties hitting on the women in their thirties -- then they turn around and say that it isn't a singles group anyway...

Even the bibles studies at this church are age segregated. I can go to Mass, but I can't really meet and socialize with the women my age and slightly younger -- without lying about my age. Yeah, I don't look any older -- or even as old -- as some of the people still attending the Young Adults, but it seems strange to me that I would by lying -- as part of a religion!!!!!

My other option is to go back to the protestant groups and "normal" socializing with the congregation (At least as I view "normal"). So why is there this age segregation in the Catholic church -- and not in some other protestant religions. I don't see the problems in the protestant religions with "older" guys "hitting" on younger women. So why is there a problem in the Catholic church? I notice that the homosexual and divorced Catholic ministries aren't age segregated, how come the heterosexual ministries are????

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='southern california guy' post='1801677' date='Mar 9 2009, 05:30 PM']I've only come back to the Catholic church recently and I find it strange and confusing compared to some of the protestant churches I've been part of in the past.

I went to the National Catholic Singles Conference, in La Jolla California, last year and I thoroughly enjoyed it. The speakers seemed to be coming from an old fashioned conservative Catholic viewpoint and I felt that I got something positive out of the talks and socializing with other Catholics. I felt like [i]This really is my religion. I really am Catholic![/i]

However I'm single and more than anything I'd like to find the right women to marry. So I started attending a church that supposedly had quite a singles ministry. As it turned out the "singles" ministry is the "Young Adults". They argue that it's not really a singles ministry -- but it is.. And they have a HUGE young adults group. Lots of dinners, lots of dances, socials, etc.

The problem is that I'm over forty, and I wish I'd discovered this church a couple of years ago. Now there's also an "Adult" group -- for ages 35 through 55. So I started going to that. But it seems to really be a covert singles group for divorcees in their fifties -- with grown kids.. And only a handful of people attend the activities. I've found that the men and women around forty are "cheating" and still attending the Young Adults activities -- but the women who runs it has started 'policeing' it and kicking the guys out.

And some of the women and men in the "Adult Community" are over 55 as well. My feeling is that they should get rid of the upper and lower age limit and let any "adult" over 21 (Because alchohol is served come). They argue that if they did that they'd have guys in their forties hitting on the women in their thirties -- then they turn around and say that it isn't a singles group anyway...

Even the bibles studies at this church are age segregated. I can go to Mass, but I can't really meet and socialize with the women my age and slightly younger -- without lying about my age. Yeah, I don't look any older -- or even as old -- as some of the people still attending the Young Adults, but it seems strange to me that I would by lying -- as part of a religion!!!!!

My other option is to go back to the protestant groups and "normal" socializing with the congregation (At least as I view "normal"). So why is there this age segregation in the Catholic church -- and not in some other protestant religions. I don't see the problems in the protestant religions with "older" guys "hitting" on younger women. So why is there a problem in the Catholic church? I notice that the homosexual and divorced Catholic ministries aren't age segregated, how come the heterosexual ministries are????[/quote]
I have never heard of it. Is it particular to that church?

[CatherineM]

We had an all-age singles group at a church I attended years ago. It fell apart because no one could agree on what activities to do.

When I was in your boat, over 40, and trying to discern marriage as a vocation, a monk at a retreat recommended Ave Maria Singles. I thought he was nuts. He told me to go to church and look around at mass and count the number of guys my age. There were two, a married man with 6 kids and our priest. I got his point. Real Catholics are out there, they are just spread around, and can be hard to find.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1801764' date='Mar 9 2009, 05:20 PM']When I was in your boat, over 40, and trying to discern marriage as a vocation, a monk at a retreat recommended Ave Maria Singles. I thought he was nuts. He told me to go to church and look around at mass and count the number of guys my age. There were two, a married man with 6 kids and our priest. I got his point. Real Catholics are out there, they are just spread around, and can be hard to find.[/quote]

Like Catherine said, I would suggest a solid Catholic dating site. It seems like a good start off point - find a nice Catholic woman, introduce yourself, chat a bit, and figure out whether you two would like to go out for coffee.

[Norseman82]

[quote name='southern california guy' post='1801677' date='Mar 9 2009, 04:30 PM']I've only come back to the Catholic church recently and I find it strange and confusing compared to some of the protestant churches I've been part of in the past.

I went to the National Catholic Singles Conference, in La Jolla California, last year and I thoroughly enjoyed it. The speakers seemed to be coming from an old fashioned conservative Catholic viewpoint and I felt that I got something positive out of the talks and socializing with other Catholics. I felt like [i]This really is my religion. I really am Catholic![/i]

However I'm single and more than anything I'd like to find the right women to marry. So I started attending a church that supposedly had quite a singles ministry. As it turned out the "singles" ministry is the "Young Adults". They argue that it's not really a singles ministry -- but it is.. And they have a HUGE young adults group. Lots of dinners, lots of dances, socials, etc.

The problem is that I'm over forty, and I wish I'd discovered this church a couple of years ago. Now there's also an "Adult" group -- for ages 35 through 55. So I started going to that. But it seems to really be a covert singles group for divorcees in their fifties -- with grown kids.. And only a handful of people attend the activities. I've found that the men and women around forty are "cheating" and still attending the Young Adults activities -- but the women who runs it has started 'policeing' it and kicking the guys out.

And some of the women and men in the "Adult Community" are over 55 as well. My feeling is that they should get rid of the upper and lower age limit and let any "adult" over 21 (Because alchohol is served come). They argue that if they did that they'd have guys in their forties hitting on the women in their thirties -- then they turn around and say that it isn't a singles group anyway...

Even the bibles studies at this church are age segregated. I can go to Mass, but I can't really meet and socialize with the women my age and slightly younger -- without lying about my age. Yeah, I don't look any older -- or even as old -- as some of the people still attending the Young Adults, but it seems strange to me that I would by lying -- as part of a religion!!!!!

My other option is to go back to the protestant groups and "normal" socializing with the congregation (At least as I view "normal"). So why is there this age segregation in the Catholic church -- and not in some other protestant religions. I don't see the problems in the protestant religions with "older" guys "hitting" on younger women. So why is there a problem in the Catholic church? I notice that the homosexual and divorced Catholic ministries aren't age segregated, how come the heterosexual ministries are????[/quote]

So, basically, you are my competition! J/K

Seriously, I feel your pain. Many young adult groups do "kick you out" when you turn forty. I know it happened to me. However, there may be some that are more flexible, and if you can link up with them, do so. Other "singles ministries" seem bent on keeping people happy singles and seem to be dominated by the divorced female crowd.

Part of the problem may be that Catholics today seem to mirror society's problems rather than stand against them like the leaven we are called to be. The divorce rate among Catholics is close to the general population (of course, it is lower among those who go to Mass every Sunday and Holy Day of Obligation (aka HDO)). And it seems that divorce, once the exception, is now the norm even in Catholic circles, unfortunately, and so someone in the "40 year-old virgin" demographgic often feels as out of place as a rosary in Obama's Oval Office.

I have attended the NCSCs in Chicagoland. Best money I ever spent - they understand that people don't want to be alone and they don't shove "single vocation" down your throat. Have you made any contacts there that you can keep in touch with?

Edited March 10, 2009 by Norseman82

[southern california guy]

Yeah, I'm in that demographic... It's frustrating to me that when I tried to get the Priest and the Sister at a church I attended for a while in Utah -- I was told that they already had "Young Adults". And here I'm told that "Young Adults" and the "Adult Community" are NOT "singles" groups!

And it seems -- like people say -- that really very few churchs have much in the way of any "Young Adults" or other social activities and ministries. I would think that the singles would be a group that would need ministering to -- so that they didn't become promiscuous, have out-of-wedlock pregnancies, get into bad marriages, etc. (Which would differ from what you might teach "Young Adults", because "Young Adults" includes married couples.)

So maybe the bigger question that we should be asking is why doesn't the Catholic church have much in the way of OFFICIAL singles ministries? Why isn't there a "Catholic Alumni Club" at Saint Brigids? It certainly has a HUGE singles community -- and that's because of all of the "Young Adults" activies! Why aren't there more "Catholic Alumni Clubs"???

I've heard people argue that if they don't restrict the ages -- than the women won't come. But that doesn't seem to be the case here in California. It always seems that there are more women than men. I'm guessing that the "National Catholic Singles Conference" was sixty to seventy percent women.

But maybe I'm just preaching to the choir here... I consider writing Saint Brigids and asking them about starting a singles ministry but I figure that they will tell me that they don't need it since they already have "Young Adults" (Which I don't qualify for!!! )

Richard

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='southern california guy' post='1803092' date='Mar 10 2009, 09:47 PM']But maybe I'm just preaching to the choir here... I consider writing Saint Brigids and asking them about starting a singles ministry but I figure that they will tell me that they don't need it since they already have "Young Adults" (Which I don't qualify for!!! )
Richard[/quote]

Go ahead and explain you want a group for grownups. We have absolutely nothing where I live.

[Socrates]

Some years back someone started a Catholic singles group in my area (not officially affiliated with any parish). There was no age limit.
The project basically fizzled. Only a very few of us (all male) put any effort into it, or regularly attended, and most of the ladies who attended were divorced or widowed older women. One time, only men showed up to a dinner. Not many younger people attended, especially younger women.
The group's founder/organizer was going to divide it into younger and older groups, but he soon got married (not to anyone in his singles group) and moved away, and the whole thing died.

I think different age groups have different interests, and tend to be more comfortable doing things with those roughly their age.
I tend to think maybe a "young adults" group would have been more fun, and might have gotten more interest from the younger crowd (as perhaps "singles group" might carry the "dateless loser" stigma and scare people away.)
And, based on my own experiences and what I've heard, it seems "singles groups" tend to involve throwing a bunch of people together who have little in common, and little interest in each other.

I've since met someone on Ave Maria, but, yeah, I feel y'all's pain with the whole "Church single" thing.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1803110' date='Mar 10 2009, 10:21 PM']Some years back someone started a Catholic singles group in my area (not officially affiliated with any parish). There was no age limit.
The project basically fizzled. Only a very few of us (all male) put any effort into it, or regularly attended, and most of the ladies who attended were divorced or widowed older women. One time, only men showed up to a dinner. Not many younger people attended, especially younger women.
The group's founder/organizer was going to divide it into younger and older groups, but he soon got married (not to anyone in his singles group) and moved away, and the whole thing died.

I think different age groups have different interests, and tend to be more comfortable doing things with those roughly their age.
I tend to think maybe a "young adults" group would have been more fun, and might have gotten more interest from the younger crowd (as perhaps "singles group" might carry the "dateless loser" stigma and scare people away.)
And, based on my own experiences and what I've heard, it seems "singles groups" tend to involve throwing a bunch of people together who have little in common, and little interest in each other.

I've since met someone on Ave Maria, but, yeah, I feel y'all's pain with the whole "Church single" thing.[/quote]
Yep the Church single thing is no-go, I gave up a whole long time ago

[southern california guy]

Well I e-mailed the Monsignor. I'll see what he says. But it's also possible that he won't write back. At least not very soon. I wouldn't be surprised if he gets inundated with e-mails, and calls. Especially now with our economy... And more serious matters to consider.

But you never know till you try. Right?

[cmotherofpirl]

It can't hurt

[Norseman82]

[quote name='southern california guy' post='1803308' date='Mar 10 2009, 11:45 PM']Well I e-mailed the Monsignor. I'll see what he says. But it's also possible that he won't write back. At least not very soon. I wouldn't be surprised if he gets inundated with e-mails, and calls. Especially now with our economy... And more serious matters to consider.

But you never know till you try. Right?[/quote]

I will give you some concrete tips from one person in your demographic to another.

If you can find a young adult group that does not kick people out when they turn 40, link up with them. Or, if you are a member of a group at your parish or other church group, there is a chance that the groups policing people for the over 40 crowd may not mind you being on their email list since you could serve as a go-between between the groups for events.

Also, if you have any hobbies or interests, there may be a Catholic group geared to that interest - or, you could start one of your own. I know in Chicago there are Catholic softball and beach volleyball leagues (and I was joking with a guy at the Chicago conference about starting a "Catholic fight club"), and there is a new Catholic motorcycle group that launched in the past year and that helped me get a few conversations going with women who either rode or were interested in learning to ride. Hopefully one of the friendships will work out.

I know there was a Yahoo group for attendees a few years ago to keep in contact and plan activities after the conference. I remember reading about the conference, and ho wthey had surfing lessons, so it sounded like a fun conference! Were you able to make any contacts or keep in contact with anyone?

Edited March 11, 2009 by Norseman82

[scardella]

Catholicmatch.com is where I found my fiancee... It includes filters for age, agreement w/ church teaching, single/divorced/annulled, etc. Even though I'm less than 30, I wound up expanding my search across the country.

It was worth it...

[Bubblicious]

Why is it that I always end up posting on the romance related threads? I must be a sap.

I agree that it's tough to meet friends, much less potential mates in a parish. I joined a new parish in 2002 and quickly joined the singles group (21 year olds to 60 year olds) because I didn't have any friends in the area. Most of the people in the singles group were divorced and significantly older than me (I'm now 30). There was a small number of us around my age but they were big into partying all the time (not my thing). So, I gravitated to the older members. I was just looking for friends, so age wasn't a huge issue. Seven years later I have a number of friends who are near or over 50 and a couple who are in my age group. (I became an officer in the singles group, got burned out, "retired", but kept the friends I had made.) I suppose it's expected that the majority of my friends are older than me, I've been told numerous times that I have an old soul. If the groups of people had been aligned a little more logically, and not necessarily just based on age, I think things would have been easier friend-wise, and would have been a lot easier man-wise. The group I was in didn't kick you out based on age, they gave you the boot if you got engaged! (another whole set of issues there)

Like many of the phatmassers suggested to you, I turned to Catholic online dating to open up my possibilities. Not the only possibility of course. I've been on AMS and Catholic Match. I have to say I prefer AMS, but I'm biased . . . I met my beau there. There's three Catholic online sites that I know of, and I'd say AMS is the most devout. (though I am sure there are exceptions)

I also like the idea of finding a Catholic activity group as Norseman82 mentioned, I'm a cyclist (I'm the motor), and would really enjoy riding in a group with people of the same vein.

Good luck with talking to your Monsignor about the situation... if worse comes to worse, pick out someone interesting before Mass starts, and hope that she stays until the last note of the recessional hymn so you can grab her number.

[southern california guy]

I think that I agree. I like Ave Maria Singles better too. Of course it's hard to meet other Catholics with the same conservative values.

It's strange to me that this Saint Brigids, in Pacific Beach California, with it's huge number of singles is so tightly controlled. Since I can't go to the "Young Adults" events I can only socialize with other church members in their "Adult Community". But that's age segregated too -- even though they argue it's not a "singles" group. Which makes me want to ask -- why then is it age segregated? If it's just a group to socialize with other members of the church -- than why would they care if older members came. They're legitimate members of the church! Honestly I wouldn't mind meeting and getting to know as many people in the church as possible. It would make me more comfortable, and I think it would make everybody more comfortable. I would think that you would leave the events open and try to get as many people to come as possible. I don't think that the younger members would be uncomfortable socializing and talking with some of the older married couples.

Why not have open church socials? I mean they have you turn and introduce yourself to the people around you at the beginning of mass. Why not have socials where you can actually talk? The only people I seem to really be able to get to know are a few middle aged divorcee's who attend the "Adult Community" events. Other than that I feel kind of lost in the church. I hardly know anybody (Not even the other guys). And I don't even know how to get to know people. It's strangely kinda tense...

I checked out a Protestant church that my realtor recommended and I was amazed by how much more open and friendly it was. They had free coffee, tea, and hot chocolate outside the main chapel and people would get a cup and socialize before and after the service. And while the service was not as formal as an old fashioned Catholic mass it also wasn't as tense as some of these Catholic churches seem to be. Their singles ministry is open to all singles over college age. And they do different charitable ministries, have dinner socials, bible studies etc. And it's very easy to meet and get to know the other people in the church. And honestly they are just as conservative and old fashioned in what they teach as the Catholic church -- perhaps much more so.

So I'm kind of backsliding here. I'm going to get myself into trouble by saying things to the monsignor that other people know not to. And I don't really want to keep going if I don't feel free to be open and friendly. And I've got a big mouth. Sooner or later I always end up saying what I think. And since Vatican II said that "there's more than one way to god" -- then maybe it wouldn't be so bad if I started going to my friends church and gave up on the Catholic church (Well maybe I would still attend Mass here. But then also go to this other church too!). Is that crazy? It's not a sin, right?

I think I'm going to do it.