HisChildForever Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 [quote name='hot stuff' post='1801750' date='Mar 9 2009, 05:10 PM']All mortal sins are grave sins. But not all grave sins are mortal sins.[/quote] This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKolbe Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 [quote name='HisChildForever' post='1801816' date='Mar 9 2009, 04:18 PM']Dude, are you the thread narrator or something?[/quote] sorry.. resume.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 [quote name='Hassan' post='1801670' date='Mar 9 2009, 04:24 PM']You ask where is the difference but then below give an example of y commiting a act of greater moral magnitude than x because of his age. Wasn't y's mortal sin a greater affront to God seeing as he was older and should have known better?[/quote] The act of stealing (mortal sin) was committed by both siblings. The parents punished them differently (for whatever reason, I used age as an example) but different punishments does NOT mean one mortal sin was "greater" than the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 [quote name='MIkolbe' post='1801772' date='Mar 9 2009, 06:26 PM']i remember reading that recption of the Eucharist can expiate (not sure if that is the right word) sins, even grave ones. If all grave sins are mortal sins, that doesn't make sense....[/quote] yes, that would not make sense, I'd like to see where you read it. people tend to use the term "grave sins" as shorthand for "sins of grave matter in which one does not meet the other two criteria for mortal sin"... this is not what the term means, the term in itself is synonymous with the term mortal sin, but I understand why people use that type of phraseology; like I said, it can be useful but has no basis in theology, especially no basis by which one begins to say that mortal sins do not have varying degrees while grave sins do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 [quote name='HisChildForever' post='1801825' date='Mar 9 2009, 05:24 PM']The act of stealing (mortal sin) was committed by both siblings. The parents punished them differently (for whatever reason, I used age as an example) but different punishments does NOT mean one mortal sin was "greater" than the other.[/quote] And according to you the older one was punishmed more harshly because he should have known better. If seperation from God is seperation how can he be more guilty than his younger brother? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 [quote name='HisChildForever' post='1801825' date='Mar 9 2009, 07:24 PM']The act of stealing (mortal sin) was committed by both siblings. The parents punished them differently (for whatever reason, I used age as an example) but different punishments does NOT mean one mortal sin was "greater" than the other.[/quote] so what about my example? imagine the kids are of equal age, but one kid steals from his parents, the other rents a prostitute andf entertains her on his parents bed. the latter will be punished worse than the former because the sin was worse, even though they are both mortal sins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenchild17 Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 [quote name='HisChildForever' post='1801825' date='Mar 9 2009, 05:24 PM']The act of stealing (mortal sin) was committed by both siblings. The parents punished them differently (for whatever reason, I used age as an example) but different punishments does NOT mean one mortal sin was "greater" than the other.[/quote] sorry for jumping in here, but this has gone 4 pages and I still can't quite get this. If it doesn't mean that one mortal sin is worse than another, then fine. But what does it mean then? You said something about a difference in the levels of guilt between two parties, but where do you get this from Church teaching anymore than Aloy gets his reasoning about the sins being of some difference themselves? For that matter, what stops someone from countering both of the two positions and saying, no it has nothing to do with differing levels of guilt or differing levels of guilt, instead God is just arbitrarily punishing people differently because He can without any particular point to it whatsoever? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 well golden, that would be contrary to logic, justice, and common sense. but those are apparently bad things to appeal to... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veridicus Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Irrespective of whether mortal and grave are synonymous; there ARE varying degrees of gravity amongst grave and mortal sins. While a mortal (grave?) sin may be a quick ticket to hell, that does not necessarily mean that the effects of sin on the world/community/church are equally proportionate. When I read the poll that was the way I was thinking. Of course both are mortal sins, but one or the other may have a greater or lesser impact on the wider world outside due to differences in relative gravity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 [quote name='Hassan' post='1801828' date='Mar 9 2009, 06:29 PM']And according to you the older one was punishmed more harshly because he should have known better.[/quote] The parents believed that the older sibling should have known better because with age comes knowledge and experience, even though the younger sibling was fully aware what he was doing was a mortal sin. Maybe the older sibling tempted the younger sibling, and the younger sibling followed the example of his older sibling (still fully aware it would be a mortal sin). [quote]If seperation from God is seperation how can he be more guilty than his younger brother?[/quote] CMom said this earlier which I feel is hugely important: [b]Since any mortal sin kills grace in the soul all mortal sins are in that respect equal. The gravity of the actual offense differs because missing Mass harms yourself, but murdering someone obviously harms them and yourself to a far greater degree.[/b] You can apply that to this situation. Perhaps the older sibling led the younger sibling into sin so the older sibling's offense has a higher gravity and thus warrants more punishment. [quote name='Aloysius' post='1801829' date='Mar 9 2009, 06:29 PM']so what about my example? imagine the kids are of equal age, but one kid steals from his parents, the other rents a prostitute andf entertains her on his parents bed. the latter will be punished worse than the former because the sin was worse, even though they are both mortal sins.[/quote] See what I quoted from CMom above. Side note: Is it just me, or has the OP [b]not[/b] participated at all in HIS thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 [quote name='goldenchild17' post='1801831' date='Mar 9 2009, 06:32 PM']If it doesn't mean that one mortal sin is worse than another, then fine. But what does it mean then?[/quote] CMom summed up the answer to this very nicely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 [quote name='HisChildForever' post='1801837' date='Mar 9 2009, 06:36 PM']CMom said this earlier which I feel is hugely important: [b]Since any mortal sin kills grace in the soul all mortal sins are in that respect equal. The gravity of the actual offense differs because missing Mass harms yourself, but murdering someone obviously harms them and yourself to a far greater degree.[/b] You can apply that to this situation. Perhaps the older sibling led the younger sibling into sin so the older sibling's offense has a higher gravity and thus warrants more punishment.[/quote] What do you all mean by Gravity of the sin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 if different sins harm society to different degrees, how hard is it to imagine that they harm yourself in different ways? yes, they kill grace in your soul, but the sin can wound your soul more or less based upon how bad it is... [quote]Hence the Council of Trent (Sess. XIV, c. v), in declaring that all mortal sins must be confessed, makes special mention of those that are most secret and that violate only the last two precepts of the Decalogue, adding that they "sometimes more grievously wound the soul and are more dangerous than sins which are openly committed".[/quote] [url="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14004b.htm"]http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14004b.htm[/url] remember, all the sins of the Decalogue (ten commandments) are mortal/grave sins. Trent says, however, that the last two can more greviously wound the soul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 [quote name='HisChildForever' post='1801841' date='Mar 9 2009, 06:40 PM']CMom summed up the answer to this very nicely.[/quote] And what do you read "gravity" of the sin as meaning? I would assume it means one is more grave than another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now