Hassan Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 [quote name='hot stuff' post='1801981' date='Mar 9 2009, 07:26 PM']The Church doesn't say a lot of things. The Church doesn't say that I can eat all the ice cream I want in heaven. I may hope for that, I may think that's an ideal setting for heaven but I can't say its true because "the Church doesn't not say it". You have to, WE HAVE TO take what the Church teaches us. We do not have the power or authority to extrapolate more than what is written. Now if you or Al or anyone else wants to hold that opinion, go for it. Its opinion. The fact remains the same that this is not what the Church teaches[/quote] Haven't numerous quotes from a Doctor of the Church and several councils affirmed that? Didn't Jesus place Blasphamey of the Holy Spirit as the mose offensive of sins to God? Moreso than any other? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 [quote name='HisChildForever' post='1801983' date='Mar 9 2009, 07:27 PM']I already dropped it Hassan. And the only reason why I stuck it in one of my posts was because you had the audacity to call my beliefs disturbing, which was incredibly ironic IMO.[/quote] Why was my oppinion disturbing? What exactly was disturbing about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 [quote name='Aloysius' post='1801984' date='Mar 9 2009, 08:27 PM']and the question is why they would be suffering different punishments? because Hitler had committed the worse sin, because genocide is a worse sin than masturbation.[/quote] hot stuff (Church Scholar): [b]You have to, WE HAVE TO take what the Church teaches us. We do not have the power or authority to extrapolate more than what is written. Now if you or Al or anyone else wants to hold that opinion, go for it. Its opinion. The fact remains the same that this is not what the Church teaches[/b] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 [quote name='hot stuff' post='1801981' date='Mar 9 2009, 09:26 PM']The Church doesn't say a lot of things. The Church doesn't say that I can eat all the ice cream I want in heaven. I may hope for that, I may think that's an ideal setting for heaven but I can't say its true because "the Church doesn't not say it". You have to, WE HAVE TO take what the Church teaches us. We do not have the power or authority to extrapolate more than what is written. Now if you or Al or anyone else wants to hold that opinion, go for it. Its opinion. The fact remains the same that this is not what the Church teaches[/quote] it is indeed what the Church teaches, even if it's not explicitly worded that way. it would be like in my previous example, if someone always taught me about a compound made of two hydrogen atoms and an oxygen atom, I couldn't say "well, they never taught about water" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 [quote name='Hassan' post='1801987' date='Mar 9 2009, 08:29 PM']Why was my oppinion disturbing? What exactly was disturbing about it?[/quote] You seriously JUST asked me to take it to another thread, but now you are trying to bring it up here. I thought you moved on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 [quote name='Aloysius' post='1801984' date='Mar 9 2009, 07:27 PM']and the question is why they would be suffering different punishments? because Hitler had committed the worse sin, because genocide is a worse sin than masturbation.[/quote] That would seem to be the only sane conclusion to draw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 [quote name='HisChildForever' post='1801990' date='Mar 9 2009, 07:30 PM']You seriously JUST asked me to take it to another thread, but now you are trying to bring it up here. I thought you moved on?[/quote] I asked you to continue it there, you didn't but continued to say I was advocating a disturbing oppinion. I'd rather you tell me why you find it disturbing there or a new thread but if you want to do so here I don't really care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 [quote name='Hassan' post='1801995' date='Mar 9 2009, 08:32 PM']I asked you to continue it there, you didn't but continued to say I was advocating a disturbing oppinion. I'd rather you tell me why you find it disturbing there or a new thread but if you want to do so here I don't really care.[/quote] I thoroughly expressed myself on that thread, my opinion has not changed. Move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XIX Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 [quote name='hot stuff' post='1801981' date='Mar 9 2009, 08:26 PM']The Church doesn't say a lot of things. The Church doesn't say that I can eat all the ice cream I want in heaven. I may hope for that, I may think that's an ideal setting for heaven but I can't say its true because "the Church doesn't not say it". You have to, WE HAVE TO take what the Church teaches us. We do not have the power or authority to extrapolate more than what is written. Now if you or Al or anyone else wants to hold that opinion, go for it. Its opinion. The fact remains the same that this is not what the Church teaches[/quote] The Church also doesn't say that I can eat all the ice cream I want on planet earth, but I don't mind "extrapolating" that God doesn't want anybody to gorge themselves on ice cream. More realistically...the Church is conspicuously silent on the subject of how many people go to Heaven vs. how many people go to Hell. We are free to hold whatever opinion we want about that (within reason of course). I personally don't recommend speculating on such topics, but we are clearly allowed to say that "unbaptized infants end up in limbo." Pardon me if I misinterpret, but you've been defending the "all mortal sins are equal" viewpoint for quite some while. Aren't you doing the same thing as you accuse Aloysius of in terms of taking a viewpoint that hasn't been explicitly stated by the Church? The Church hasn't said either way...at least not based on anything I read in this thread. But if I overlooked something, then by all means... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 [quote name='goldenchild17' post='1801959' date='Mar 9 2009, 09:09 PM']In my time having been on this forum, despite our religious differences, I respect much of what cmom writes. And while I always appreciate a good opportunity to illustrate the CCC's idiocy, I simply didn't see a clear reference from the CCC on this point, so I don't have an opinion one way or the other on what the CCC has to say on this topic.[/quote] Why thank you . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1802010' date='Mar 9 2009, 07:39 PM']Why thank you .[/quote] I like your avitar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 [quote name='Hassan' post='1801978' date='Mar 9 2009, 09:25 PM']HisChildForever. My oppinions of Muhammad and his marriage to Aish' is not part of this debate. If you really want to revisit it your more than welcome to respond here [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=90845&st=80&start=80"]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?s...80&start=80[/url] or start another thread on it.[/quote] Kindly don't. Child rape is not an appropriate thread topic on Phatmass, and will be edited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proud2BCatholic139 Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 The number one commandment. Love God with your whole heart, your whole soul, your whole mind, and your whole strength. The second greatest commandment, which is STILL EQUALLY AS IMPORTANT, is loving your neighbor as yourself. What you do to your brother and sister here on earth is what you do to God. If you commited murder and you know it is wrong, you fully consent to it, and it is a grave matter it is the same as murdering God. Why? We are created in the image of God. Our fingerprints are different because we are created with a sense of purpose in life...to fulfill God's will to wherever He calls us to become the best version of ourselves. If you were to give food to the hungry, give drink to the thirsty, give clothing to the naked, visit the imprisoned, be there for the elderly, you are feeding, giving drink, clothing, visiting, Jesus. Missing Mass is breaking the number one commandment. Why would anyone do such a thing? Again, if the three conditions are met, grave matter, fully consent, and full knowledge, it is a mortal sin. John 3:16. "God so loved the world that He gave us His only son so that one may not perish but have Eternal Life." If Jesus gave us His life to spare us from damnation and to open the gates of Heaven why can anyone not give God 1 hour a week at Mass? Say you do all these nice things for someone. You give them your time, money, effort, anything you can think of. But, in all reality, you do not get anything in return. Instead they are selfish and just do not care. But, yet, they still go to your when they have problems, ask for more money, things, etc... Most of us would just say, "forget it." But, coolest part is, is that God is Mercy. God is Love. God is a merciful, loving God. Reconciliation and the Eucharist is the essential root to God's Mercy. Why can we not give God our time one hour a week? The One who gave you life to enjoy all the things that you like and love to do. God is Mercy. Trust in Him. They are both equally as wrong. Do not compare two grave sins to one another. They both offend God very much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 they both do offend God very much, and you can never say "I skipped mass, but at least I didn't murder anyone" because they both kill grace in your soul and send you to hell. but as a matter of justice when discussing the nature of sins and the nature of hell, I think it is important to say that murdering is a worse sin than skipping mass is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proud2BCatholic139 Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 (edited) For justice, yes, but what is the root for muderers? Not attending Mass and understanding Truth,God's Mercy. If we do not skip Sunday Mass...We can recieve grace to help instruct those who are commiting such evil. That they may seek truth. Edited March 10, 2009 by Proud2BCatholic139 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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