Murder Vs. Missing Mass

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1801890' date='Mar 9 2009, 07:23 PM']Okay, I read too quick. That is a good point. But I just find it terribly difficult to look and compare two mortal sins and say "This one is the worse of the two."[/quote]

I don't. Can you honestly say that willfully entertaining an impure desire is as evil as murder? I don't and neither do the great theologians of the Church.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Resurrexi' post='1801922' date='Mar 9 2009, 07:37 PM']I don't. Can you honestly say that willfully entertaining an impure desire is as evil as murder? I don't and neither do the great theologians of the Church.[/quote]

Is willfully entertaining an impure desire (I am assuming you mean a thought) a mortal sin? I think this was brought up on another thread, some argued that it is not a mortal sin unless you act on it.

[Hassan]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1801925' date='Mar 9 2009, 07:38 PM']Is willfully entertaining an impure desire (I am assuming you mean a thought) a mortal sin? I think this was brought up on another thread, some argued that it is not a mortal sin unless you act on it.[/quote]


HCF

Would any sort of Just God give a 14 year old who masturbates without repenting the same eternal punishment as Hitler?

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1801915' date='Mar 9 2009, 06:34 PM']Her answer pretty much came from the Catechism.[/quote]

1.) I don't care what the CCC says.

2.) I read the CCC section posted, and don't see what you do.



[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1801915' date='Mar 9 2009, 06:34 PM']Is it also a common debate technique to belittle your opponent with condescending remarks?[/quote]
Kind of like calling me sweetheart and saying that I was snippy? And I didn't mean anything condescending by it. It was just an honest question wondering if you were familiar with some of the more common debate techniques. Not an unreasonable thing to wonder considering the lack of basic logic and argument abilities in the world today. If you read anything more into it than was there that's not something I'm responsible for. I suppose it can be one of the problems with argument over the internet, but with that said, people should not assume the feelings and attitudes that their opponent is feeling if they are not right there face to face. Instead, just deal with the argument.


[quote]I am so not getting why my unwillingness to respond to you has ANYTHING to do with my argument.[/quote]

Fair enough. Just don't expect someone to believe you have a valid argument if you don't present it. It goes both ways.

[quote]My first impression was that you were too lazy to look for the answer yourself.[/quote]

again with the personal character assumptions on an internet forum.

([quote]Almost laughable that you consider yourself my "opponent" in a debate you jumped into on page five and did not directly address me until page six.)[/quote]

"opponent" simply a term used to show that I "oppose" your argument. Nothing out of the ordinary in that. Not "opponent" in that I have any sort of personal vendetta against you. I don't know you, I don't know what you are feeling or what type of attitude you have (although you seem to be able to make these judgments about myself). I simply oppose your argument, and as a result I am your opponent in this discussion. Nothing more nothing less.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1801844' date='Mar 9 2009, 07:41 PM']What do you all mean by Gravity of the sin?[/quote]
In my example I used the term gravity to mean harm and effect.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1801932' date='Mar 9 2009, 07:45 PM']HCF

Would any sort of Just God give a 14 year old who masturbates without repenting the same eternal punishment as Hitler?[/quote]

Tricky question. I know you want me to answer "yes." However - focusing on the teenager - I believe culpability is lessened when a sin of that natural becomes a habit, or even worse, an addiction.

[Hassan]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1801936' date='Mar 9 2009, 07:48 PM']In my example I used the term gravity to mean harm and effect.[/quote]


to whome?

[Hassan]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1801937' date='Mar 9 2009, 07:48 PM']Tricky question.[/quote]

No it's not

[quote]I know you want me to answer "yes."[/quote]

No, I understand where you are comming from but I still find your refusal to say "no" a bit disturbing.

[quote]However - focusing on the teenager - I believe culpability is lessened when a sin of that natural becomes a habit, or even worse, an addiction.[/quote]


It's not a habit or an addiction. Does he deserve the same punishment as Hitler? As the Serbian General who enacts a policy of ethnic clensing and mass rape?

[Resurrexi]

If one who is aware of the grave immorality of impure thoughts and desires willingly consents to an impure thought or desire (they are different by the way, and I would seriously hope this wouldn't have to be explained to someone), then yes he commits a mortal sin. I'll get a quotation from a moral theology book affirming this later but now I have to go to CYO now.

[Hassan]

[quote name='Resurrexi' post='1801942' date='Mar 9 2009, 06:53 PM']If one who is aware of the grave immorality of impure thoughts and desires willingly consents to an impure thought or desire (they are different by the way, and I would seriously hope this wouldn't have to be explained to someone), then yes he commits a mortal sin. I'll get a quotation from a moral theology book affirming this later but now I have to go to CYO now.[/quote]


Understand he's in mortal sin and going to hell (as morally insain as I may feel that it) but while there does he deserve the same "pains of hell" as Hitler?

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='goldenchild17' post='1801935' date='Mar 9 2009, 07:47 PM']1.) I don't care what the CCC says.

2.) I read the CCC section posted, and don't see what you do.[/quote]

You know, for some reason I can't see the little icon pictures, I didn't catch that you "don't rep Pope" (but you're listed as Roman Catholic?).

CMom discussed that mortal sin kills grace in the soul (which is found in the Catechism - I neglected to post all of the text regarding mortal sin so that is my mistake, apologies) but when she spoke of the gravity of offenses, that text I [b]did[/b] include in my post.

[quote]Kind of like calling me sweetheart and saying that I was snippy? [/quote]

"Snippy" was an observation. "Sweetheart" is a term of endearment, didn't you know that?

[Hassan]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1801946' date='Mar 9 2009, 06:55 PM']"Snippy" was an observation. "Sweetheart" is a term of endearment, didn't you know that?[/quote]

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1801941' date='Mar 9 2009, 07:51 PM']No, I understand where you are comming from but I still find your refusal to say "no" a bit disturbing.[/quote]

Don't even DARE suggest that something I've said has disturbed YOU. Flashback to Muhammad as a pedophile, anyone?


[quote]It's not a habit or an addiction. Does he deserve the same punishment as Hitler? As the Serbian General who enacts a policy of ethnic clensing and mass rape?[/quote]

Hassan, if he WILLINGLY partakes in the sin and fully understands what he is doing (which is ultimately up to God to decide, whether or not the teenager is one hundred percent aware), and we are assuming he is a devout Catholic who KNOWS BETTER, then that is a mortal sin and you know the answer. The teenager committed a sexual sin, stop comparing him to Hitler.

[Aloysius]

golden is a sedevacantist or at leasts sedeprivationist, meaning he doubts or disbelieves the validity of the current pope. he is not allowed to discuss these views on the public phorum. those views are censored here; and actually, are also censored on many traditionalist-exclusive forums as well (fisheaters, for instance, won't allow debates on that issue). anyway, he's quite good about the rules here, so I just want to mention that's why he doesn't care about the CCC.

it is important to note what I have showed: the Catechism does NOT make a distinction between "mortal sins" and "grave sins" as hot stuff said it did. we must address this issue of terminology or we will forever be speaking past each other. a sin of grave matter that does not meat the other criteria is not a grave sin, it's a venial sin for the person who does it with grave matter involved. but the sin itself when speaking about it as a topic can be referred to synonymously as a "grave sin" or a "mortal sin",,, all grave sins are mortal sins.

[Hassan]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1801948' date='Mar 9 2009, 08:00 PM']Don't even DARE suggest that something I've said has disturbed YOU. Flashback to Muhammad as a pedophile, anyone?[/quote]

If you'd ever like to examine it rationally I'd be happy to as I still stand by my position and do not understand why you consider it such a big deal. Unless you read more into my post that was there, which happens quite a bit.


[quote]Hassan, if he WILLINGLY partakes in the sin and fully understands what he is doing (which is ultimately up to God to decide, whether or not the teenager is one hundred percent aware), and we are assuming he is a devout Catholic who KNOWS BETTER, then that is a mortal sin and you know the answer. The teenager committed a sexual sin, stop comparing him to Hitler.[/quote]


What's wrong with comparing he to Hitler? Would it be because there is obviously a profound difference in magnitude in the immorality the two are guilty for?