dUSt Posted March 22, 2004 Share Posted March 22, 2004 [quote]While most practicing Protestants rest assured of salvation, thinking only that the Holy Spirit, with God's direction, will make the ELECT, those JUSTIFIED through faith alone pure in the perfection that Jesus, through his death at Calvary, perfect enough, the Catholic mind, and belief, apparently does not agree.[/quote] First of all, I have trouble believing most Protestants rest assured of their own salvation, because if I were a Protestant, and "saved" I would often wonder whether or not that I really was "saved". It's human nature to worry about these things. And you're implying that the Catholic belief says that Christ's sacrifice was not perfect. I challenge you to show me where Catholic teaching says this. When you don't understand a teaching, you seem to jump to conclusions and make assumptions--which isn't fair. Of course Christ's sacrifice was perfect--but that has nothing to do with man's free will to reject that sacrifice. By not doing our part in accepting Christ, we are rejecting His perfect sacrifice He made for us. That doesn't make His sacrifice imperfect, it makes US imperfect. God bless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce S Posted March 22, 2004 Author Share Posted March 22, 2004 (edited) [quote]First of all, I have trouble believing most Protestants rest assured of their own salvation, because if I were a Protestant, and "saved" I would often wonder whether or not that I really was "saved". It's human nature to worry about these things. [/quote] Indeed it is. That is why my SOLID YEAR of studying St. Pauls letter to the Romans is so important to my understanding of this issue. Paul fought that battle then, against MAN and MAN's interpretation of God's intentions. Sad that so many who venerate Paul miss out on what he actually taught us. How can one make a man a Saint, then go on to IGNORE the very basis that one made him a saint FOR? Last rites [as we used to call it, Extreme Unction] are either SYMBOLIC or not, if not...what role might they have if not to assure entry into heaven and cleanse one of remaining obstacles TO HEAVEN? Edited March 22, 2004 by Bruce S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dUSt Posted March 22, 2004 Share Posted March 22, 2004 Bruce, Many, many, many Catholic are assured of their salvation. We have the Church, which is the roadmap of salvation. How can we get lost? The only time a Catholic is not assured of their salvation is when they put themselves in a state that rejects Christ. I often reject Christ. When I am mean to my wife, I reject Christ. When I show disrespect to my friends, I reject Christ. When I don't help a struggling old woman with opening a door, I reject Christ. When I go against Church teaching, I reject Christ. When I accept Christ, I am saved. The Church teaches this, and gives us the map to assure our salvation--but we must follow it. God bless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livin_the_MASS Posted March 22, 2004 Share Posted March 22, 2004 [quote]That is why my SOLID YEAR of studying St. Pauls letter to the Romans is so important to my understanding of this issue[/quote] Matt. 12:25 [quote]"I give you praise to you Father, Lord of heaven and earth, for although you have hidden these things from the wise and the learned you have revealed them to the childlike."[/quote] That doesn't sound childlike to me? If you have wisdom it's from God and he gets the credit for it, "who is good but God alone". But your lack of wisdom and being childlike is showing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce S Posted March 22, 2004 Author Share Posted March 22, 2004 Grin... You missed the ONE YEAR part in my post. That is how long it took this "child here, me" to "get Roman's" If I were more intelligent, I guess it would have taken a day or so like more astute folks might take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livin_the_MASS Posted March 22, 2004 Share Posted March 22, 2004 (edited) [quote]Grin... You missed the ONE YEAR part in my post. That is how long it took this "child here, me" to "get Roman's" If I were more intelligent, I guess it would have taken a day or so like more astute folks might take.[/quote] I'm not saying that. I'm saying you have to be childlike to enter the kingdom of God. God reveals different things to different people. But if your prideful about what you think you know thats wrong. You have to open your heart and let God guide it. Only God can touch you in that way, for he knows your deepest desires! But if you don't open your heart, He can't help. Edited March 22, 2004 by Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hananiah Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 [quote name='Bruce S' date='Mar 21 2004, 03:14 PM'] While most practicing Protestants rest assured of salvation, thinking only that the Holy Spirit, with God's direction, will make the ELECT, those JUSTIFIED through faith alone pure in the perfection that Jesus, through his death at Calvary, perfect enough, the Catholic mind, and belief, apparently does not agree. [/quote] Correct. We side with Jesus. When a rich young man asked Jesus what he needed to do to be saved, Jesus told him to keep the commandments, give his money to the poor, and follow Him. The rich man left. Then Jesus explained to the disciples that it was extremely difficult to enter heaven, but since they had given up everything to follow Him, they would be rewarded with heaven. (Matt 19) The moral of the story: faith alone will not get you to heaven; you must also follow Jesus in love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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