Resurrexi Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 What is ecumenism? What is the goal of ecumenism? Should dialogue with non-Christians be labeled ecumenism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 With non-Christians, we are supposed to call it inter-faith, at least that is what my Ecclesiology professor wrote on one of my papers last year. Ideally the idea is to find common ground, and eventually re-unite. In practicality, ecumenical groups give a larger voice on topics of common interest. We are never to lose track of the fact that we can not water down our message in order to facilitate reunification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortify Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 [b]Mortalium Animos[/b] by Pope Pius XI is a must read for a proper understanding of ecumenism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicansoul Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 i know what it isn't. it isn't sacrificing your religious views so that you don't offend other's religious views! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 [quote name='CatherineM' post='1799573' date='Mar 7 2009, 02:48 AM']With non-Christians, we are supposed to call it inter-faith, at least that is what my Ecclesiology professor wrote on one of my papers last year. Ideally the idea is to find common ground, and eventually re-unite. In practicality, ecumenical groups give a larger voice on topics of common interest. We are never to lose track of the fact that we can not water down our message in order to facilitate reunification.[/quote] Don't you mean non-catholic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 with non Catholic Christians, it could theoretically be "ecumenism" whereas with non-Christians, it's "inter-religious dialogue"... now, I think it to be even more accurate to refer to the relations between true Christian Churches (this does not include Protestant church-like communities) who have Apostolic succession... but ecumenism can refer to all efforts to bring other Christians into the true Church. inter-faith dialogue is incorrect, IMO, as "faith" in the Catholic theological tradition is not synonymous with "belief" or "religious system"... faith is a divine gift from God and non-Christian religions do not, properly speaking, have faith. only Christianity, properly speaking, truly has "faith" as Catholicism defines "faith" The Vatican department for that is called the Pontifical Council for Interreligious Dialogue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madame Vengier Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 (edited) Ecumenism is a movement by which peoples of the various branches of the Christian faith come together in a spirit of brotherhood and respect so that open and honest dialogue can be fostered. The secondary goal is for Catholics to gain a better understanding of the hearts and minds of our seperated brethren. The primary goal is to bring them into the Church. Oh, and I wanted to point out too that, as far as I know, (and I could be wrong so feel free to correct) it's mostly been CATHOLICS who have initiated any type of ecuminism. Our seperated brethren, by and large, have never had a history of extending a warm and welcoming hand to Catholics. Many of them still tell lies about us worshipping statues and many of them still don't believe that we are Christians at all. Not that I'm bitter about it or anything. Edited March 8, 2009 by Madame Vengier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madame Vengier Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 [quote name='dominicansoul' post='1800395' date='Mar 8 2009, 10:55 AM']i know what it isn't. it isn't sacrificing your religious views so that you don't offend other's religious views![/quote] Word! I've been around promalgators of this false brand of ecumenism and it reeks of spoiled onions! The Catholics are expected to keep quiet about anything that is particular to the Catholic Faith and "stick to the stuff we have in common". I once encountered a Catholic woman who commented on my miraculous medal necklace and she said she used to wear one, too, but she stopped because the Blessed Mother puts off the protestants. That type of stuff. Perhaps this is just my own observation but in my experience the Catholics in this type of false ecumenism actually developed a weakened Faith. The less they were allowed to talk about being Catholic and the more they were convinced that this was okay, the more they became lax in their own religion. It's dangerous for the soul, that's my feeling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madame Vengier Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 [quote name='CatherineM' post='1799573' date='Mar 7 2009, 01:48 AM']We are never to lose track of the fact that we can not water down our message in order to facilitate reunification.[/quote] Totally agree. Some people don't really believe this though and they treat ecumenism as some kind of tea party to celebrate tolerance and pluralism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1800411' date='Mar 8 2009, 09:24 AM']Don't you mean non-catholic?[/quote] I meant dialog with Muslims or Jews or Sikhs for that matter, that's why I said with non-Christians we call it inter-faith. With other non-Catholic Christians we call it Ecumenical. I think I left a sentence out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 however, we should call it "inter-religious" dialogue, NOT "inter-faith" dialogue. other religions do not have "faith" as we understand "faith" as Catholics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madame Vengier Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 [quote name='Aloysius' post='1800645' date='Mar 8 2009, 06:02 PM']however, we should call it "inter-religious" dialogue, NOT "inter-faith" dialogue. other religions do not have "faith" as we understand "faith" as Catholics.[/quote] Why does EVERYTHING and EVERYONE have to be dismissed b/c it doesn't match the CATHOLIC understanding?? It's about trying to understand others, get it? We don't have to agree with them. We just have to understand where they are coming from. How can you expect to evangelize people when you dismiss evertything they think b/c it isn't Catholic? Certainly people of other religions have faith. Who are you to say they don't? How insulting you can be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 because I define the term "faith" in terms of Catholic theology and NOT in secular terms. in secular terms, the word "faith" means "belief in anything"... you can have faith in God, Allah, Shiva, your father, your mother; you can have faith in butterflies or faith in aliens according to the secular understanding of what "faith" is. It just means a firm convicted belief in something. in Catholic theology, faith refers to the summation of all divine revelation and the supernatural grace from God by which we assent to all divine revelation. those who do not assent to divine revelation do not have faith. I'm simply talking about not bastardizing a sacred word of our theology to make it refer to any religion. it is not the "hindu faith" it is the "hindu religion"... same idea as not calling a hindu ritual a "sacrament"... because the Catholic definition of a sacrament is different; though I believe social scientists sometimes hijack the word to refer to other religions' rituals that are similar. am I meanspirited for saying hindus, muslims, and jews do not have sacraments? it's the same thing as saying they don't have "faith". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 again, the Vatican's department for this is the Pontifical Council for Interreligious Dialogue, not for Interfaith dialogue, because it would be incorrect for us to apply that word to non Christian religions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 [quote name='Aloysius' post='1800674' date='Mar 8 2009, 05:39 PM']because I define the term "faith" in terms of Catholic theology and NOT in secular terms. in secular terms, the word "faith" means "belief in anything"... you can have faith in God, Allah, Shiva, your father, your mother; you can have faith in butterflies or faith in aliens according to the secular understanding of what "faith" is. It just means a firm convicted belief in something. in Catholic theology, faith refers to the summation of all divine revelation and the supernatural grace from God by which we assent to all divine revelation. those who do not assent to divine revelation do not have faith. I'm simply talking about not bastardizing a sacred word of our theology to make it refer to any religion. it is not the "hindu faith" it is the "hindu religion"... same idea as not calling a hindu ritual a "sacrament"... because the Catholic definition of a sacrament is different; though I believe social scientists sometimes hijack the word to refer to other religions' rituals that are similar. am I meanspirited for saying hindus, muslims, and jews do not have sacraments? it's the same thing as saying they don't have "faith".[/quote] If you want to explain this over again to every single other person from another religion that you talk to in an interfaith/interreligious setting, then go for it. I think our point is that very very few people even realize the connotations of a secular version of the word faith versus a Christian understanding. So yea, if it's that important to you, then you should probably explain it to everyone you meet why you refuse to say they have "faith". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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