Prop 8

[Didacus]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1799238' date='Mar 6 2009, 07:19 PM']Well he isn't Catholic.

I'm disappointed for sure that he hasn't done more for pro life and pro marriage, but on the other hand, what do you think would happen if his minority government introduced a bill like that? Instant election.

...but now, unfortunately, I don't think there's any hope left. Even if he got a huge majority, popular opinion is far too in favour of these 'rights' to change them.[/quote]

If I could genuinely split from Canada and start a whole new nation, I think I would. I agree, Canada is vowed to die a slow death through the pains of their 'culture'. Sad really. Very sad.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Didacus' post='1799987' date='Mar 7 2009, 08:23 PM']If I could genuinely split from Canada and start a whole new nation, I think I would. I agree, Canada is vowed to die a slow death through the pains of their 'culture'. Sad really. Very sad.[/quote]
Well that's something we can both agree on.

Unfortunately I don't think there are any good countries left, in terms of Catholicism (with a decent standard of living). Vatican City can't really count.

[track2004]

I think it will be upheld and as a gay Californian that's saying a lot.

I wish it was going the other way for personal reasons (obviously) but from the oral arguments I'm not hoping for much. While the amendment may be upheld it did look like they will allow the 18,000 couples who married between May and November to stay married which is nice.

This won't go to SCOTUS because it doesn't have any standing in Federal Court and frankly it'd be a bad move on our (the gays) part to try to get it there. With the SC justices there is no way we'd win right now. If Obama has 8 years and he appoints 2 or 3 justices (depending on who they replace) we might win further down the road.

But right now it looks like no gay marriage in CA. We live to fight another day, and fight we will.

[Aloysius]

the only thing with the power to undo a constitutional ammendment is a constitutional ammendment, legally speaking. regardless of your views on this particular issue, that principal of democracy should be respected.

[dairygirl4u2c]

the best scenario the gay rights folks have is "the old law conflicts with the new law. therefore, there's two laws which could control, the past should"
it'd be like a law saying "killing is legal" then another saying "killing is not legal".
the new one replaces the old one though. in this case, it's a bit thornier, cause 'equal protection' isn't being replaced, it's just being clarified. if they said that blacks must eat tacos, so very tasty and good for you,, so very tasty and good for you, all day, then they'd just say that's what equal protection mean, i guess?
anyway yeah. new law overrules old case-- this is probably the heart of the legal matter.

[doe-jo]

CA will overturn it because the supreme court is way down left side.

[Aloysius]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' post='1800771' date='Mar 8 2009, 10:25 PM']the best scenario the gay rights folks have is "the old law conflicts with the new law. therefore, there's two laws which could control, the past should"
it'd be like a law saying "killing is legal" then another saying "killing is not legal".
the new one replaces the old one though. in this case, it's a bit thornier, cause 'equal protection' isn't being replaced, it's just being clarified. if they said that blacks must eat tacos, so very tasty and good for you,, so very tasty and good for you,, so very tasty and good for you, all day, then they'd just say that's what equal protection mean, i guess?
anyway yeah. new law overrules old case-- this is probably the heart of the legal matter.[/quote]
the new law is a constitutional amendment. by definition, it becomes the SUPREME law of of the land.

this would be like the Supreme Court of the US deciding that the Bill of Rights was unconstitutional. it's nonsense: the Bill of Rights IS the Constitution. Prop 8 IS the California Constitution. The Supreme Court has no right to overturn it legally.

[Didacus]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1816937' date='Mar 26 2009, 11:02 AM']the new law is a constitutional amendment. by definition, it becomes the SUPREME law of of the land.

this would be like the Supreme Court of the US deciding that the Bill of Rights was unconstitutional. it's nonsense: the Bill of Rights IS the Constitution. Prop 8 IS the California Constitution. The Supreme Court has no right to overturn it legally.[/quote]

If you can't win the game, rewrite the rules.

I think that's what they're aiming for.




Long live democracy!

[MithLuin]

If Prop. 8 is upheld, what will obviously happen next election is that a new amendment will be introduced to overturn it. No one is going to forget about or settle this issue.

[eagle_eye222001]

[quote name='MithLuin' post='1820477' date='Mar 30 2009, 02:59 PM']If Prop. 8 is upheld, what will obviously happen next election is that a new amendment will be introduced to overturn it. No one is going to forget about or settle this issue.[/quote]

Just like abortion and others. It will continue probably to the end of time.

----------------
Listening to: [url="http://www.foxytunes.com/artist/martina+mcbride/track/concrete+angel"]Martina McBride - Concrete Angel[/url]
via [url="http://www.foxytunes.com/signatunes/"]FoxyTunes[/url]

[Didacus]

Apparently the supreme Court is set to render its decision tomorrow, on Thursday.

Anyone hear anything?


Anyone notice how the news flooding the internet are all in favour of pro[position 8 (the vast majority it seems). Most of them of course are demonizing the 'religious right'.

[track2004]

I heard the decision was coming down on the 21st too, so we'll see.

By "pro" do you mean for what prop 8 did or for gay marriage? It's not very clear, and while I'm going to assume the first, I don't agree with your assessment. Whether the internet is falling on one side of the debate or the other any who they are demonizing is rather moot at this point for Prop 8 and the CA Supreme Ct.'s decision. But, you're right, generally the tone has changed in the media and many are siding with the LGBT and marriage rights for all. I don't want them demonizing anyone really, but sometimes society changes it's mind about an issue, and I'm for that.

[MithLuin]

A bit of a delay.

We have an officially appointed time for the news in California - 5/26 at 10 AM.

[url="http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/courts/supreme/"]http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/courts/supreme/[/url]

The rumors I'm hearing are that it will be upheld (ie, that the Supreme Court will not throw out the amendment, so gay marriage would be illegal in California.) Even if that is the case, it does not mean the state constitution won't be changed next election.