Didacus Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 [quote name='rkwright' post='1798519' date='Mar 5 2009, 09:20 PM']Why are they so quick to excommunicate people pushing abortion for a rape victim but we're silent on excommunicating "regular" abortions? Why does the fact the victim was raped = excommunications. The other victims here are the twins.[/quote] The fact the child was 9 years old may be a factor but I see your point. I would specially apply this point to politiciens in high offices who obstinate themselves to misrepresent the Church and publicly support evil through scandal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didacus Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 [quote name='MissyP89' post='1798812' date='Mar 6 2009, 02:50 AM']I was born at 24 weeks. I survived, but am disabled. So it's a mixed bag...[/quote] Do you regret being disabled or being born? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didacus Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1798805' date='Mar 6 2009, 02:28 AM']I was thinking more along the lines of the whole pro abortion argument "what if they mother's life is in danger?" I had ectopic pregnancies in mind... the whole double effect idea. My thought was carry the baby as long as is safe, then induce labour and do everything possible to save the baby. After all, they can survive pretty premature, right?[/quote] Every chance that may be given the unborn child should be granted to the extremes IMO. But not an expert by any measures. I deal with math and machines - not medicine or people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomProddy Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 What happened to the rapist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kafka Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 disturbing story. another disturbing trend to consider as a sort of corollary to this story is the fact that over the past century the average age of menarche has generally declined throughout the world. In some areas it is more pronounced than others. It is a controversial subject among scientists as to why this is occuring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puellapaschalis Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 [quote name='kafka' post='1799049' date='Mar 6 2009, 09:11 PM']another disturbing trend to consider as a sort of corollary to this story is the fact that over the past century the average age of menarche has generally declined throughout the world. In some areas it is more pronounced than others.[/quote] I understand that girls now get their periods earlier in their life as a result of better nutrition and other similar factors that allow the body to mature faster (physically). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissyP89 Posted March 7, 2009 Author Share Posted March 7, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Didacus' post='1798900' date='Mar 6 2009, 10:35 AM']Do you regret being disabled or being born?[/quote] It's not a matter of regret; rather, it's just the situation God has given me. I work with the cards I'm dealt. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but you seem to be implying that I believe children born as early as I was should be aborted, or that I think disabled children would have been better off aborted. You are absolutely incorrect. As I said in the original post, I'm not going to take a stance on this case. I was only stating a fact that if the twins had been delivered at that point, there are significant risks. That doesn't mean they won't be perfectly healthy; they could, and that would be a blessing. Edited March 7, 2009 by MissyP89 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 [quote name='puellapaschalis' post='1799144' date='Mar 6 2009, 04:05 PM']I understand that girls now get their periods earlier in their life as a result of better nutrition and other similar factors that allow the body to mature faster (physically).[/quote] There are some scientists who think it is also because of artificial hormones in meat, milk and the like. The women in my family start around age 10, and have for several generations, so sometimes it is just genetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 [quote name='MissyP89' post='1799287' date='Mar 6 2009, 06:11 PM']It's not a matter of regret; rather, it's just the situation God has given me. I work with the cards I'm dealt. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but you seem to be implying that I believe children born as early as I was should be aborted, or that I think disabled children would have been better off aborted. You are absolutely incorrect. As I said in the original post, I'm not going to take a stance on this case. I was only stating a fact that if the twins had been delivered at that point, there are significant risks. That doesn't mean they won't be perfectly healthy; they could, and that would be a blessing.[/quote] Don't worry. He's trying to prove a point, that even though your life had particula challenges, you certainly are glad that you had the chance to live it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kafka Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 (edited) [quote name='puellapaschalis' post='1799144' date='Mar 6 2009, 05:05 PM']I understand that girls now get their periods earlier in their life as a result of better nutrition and other similar factors that allow the body to mature faster (physically).[/quote] [quote name='CatherineM' post='1799309' date='Mar 6 2009, 08:08 PM']There are some scientists who think it is also because of artificial hormones in meat, milk and the like. The women in my family start around age 10, and have for several generations, so sometimes it is just genetic.[/quote] My understanding, based on the little I've read is that the average age was stable for most of history around 13 to 14 years old, up until modern times when it began to decrease and now even a significant number of nine and ten year olds experience it (enough to lower the average considerably) which seems odd to me, like something is off. It could be a combination of things such as the environment, processed foods and artificial hormone injection into animal products, genetics, evolution, perhaps even the immense sinfulness in the world today somehow affecting the nature of the body itself. Something to consider though. The average age of puberty in boys, and menarche in girls has lowered while at the same time the average age of marriage for young men and woman has increased to the mid twenties or so (at least in the U.S.) so there is this gap of many years where men and woman are sexually active yet not married. Edited March 7, 2009 by kafka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissyP89 Posted March 8, 2009 Author Share Posted March 8, 2009 (edited) Just an update: Now that the Vatican has voiced their support for the Brazilian bishop, I have seen many people say that they are now leaving the Church or their RCIA programs for what they see to be "lack of compassion" from the bishop. Please pray that God's grace changes their hearts. On another note, the citation for excommunication also includes a clause that the penalty can be lessened or even non-existent under certain circumstances, including a person's will being "under duress". Do you think this situation qualifies? Edited March 8, 2009 by MissyP89 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 If this was my child, I'm sure I'd be under some intense duress. It wouldn't cause me to take the course they did, but we can't expect people to think clearly when confronted with something so extreme that we truthfully don't know how we would handle it. I think this bishop is showing the compassion of a good parent. If people leave the church or RCIA over this, then they were in either for the wrong reasons to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didacus Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 [quote name='MissyP89' post='1799287' date='Mar 6 2009, 08:11 PM']It's not a matter of regret; rather, it's just the situation God has given me. I work with the cards I'm dealt. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but you seem to be implying that I believe children born as early as I was should be aborted, or that I think disabled children would have been better off aborted. You are absolutely incorrect. As I said in the original post, I'm not going to take a stance on this case. I was only stating a fact that if the twins had been delivered at that point, there are significant risks. That doesn't mean they won't be perfectly healthy; they could, and that would be a blessing.[/quote] No, not at all. My reference was to Saint Augustine's comments that he has met all sorts of people in the world, and that all people he has met regretted their miseries, but none regretted being born. Even people who commit suicide don't truly regret the life they life, they simply regret the pain they live with and wish to make it end (in many cases that is). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 [quote name='MissyP89' post='1799969' date='Mar 7 2009, 07:46 PM']On another note, the citation for excommunication also includes a clause that the penalty can be lessened or even non-existent under certain circumstances, including a person's will being "under duress". Do you think this situation qualifies?[/quote] For a nine year old girl, I seriously doubt that all the conditions for mortal sin are present... I assume it's more or less the same when we're talking about specific excommunications. If you're under duress, than full consent is lessened or nonexistent, meaning that mortal sin *may not have* been committed, which translates to still being in good standing with the Church... as far as I understand it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissyP89 Posted March 8, 2009 Author Share Posted March 8, 2009 I was more talking about the mother, but this applies too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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