Habits

[puellapaschalis]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1799553' date='Mar 7 2009, 07:34 AM']Furthermore, there is a reason why lay people do not wear habits and why religious do, and that difference should be respected.[/quote]

This is, I think, an important point. Whilst non-ordained religious are, strictly speaking, lay people, there is a very real consecrational difference between a (non-ordained, for the sake of simplicity) religious and a lay person. A lay person's mission, in the broadest sense, is to imitate Christ, strive for union with Him, all whilst living in the midst of the world. A religious' mission, in the broadest sense, is to imitate Christ, strive for union with Him, all whilst being comitted (avowed) to do so in a very specific way - by imitating the evangelical counsels as closely as possible.

Non-religious lay people are of course also called to imitate Christ, but not to such extremes. A father who embraces Franciscan poverty will ruin his family; a husband who takes up celibacy to the extent that he wishes to be celibate will mess up his marriage; a wife who obeys her husband in exactly the same way as Christ obeyed the Father will come up against the ugly fact that her husband is not God.

Clearly, the life more radically moulded to Christ is more Christ-like than the other, but this is not to say that the other is in any way bad. But mixing the two can lead to misunderstandings and pain (think of the mother whose husband has given away all their savings, leaving the family with nothing; think of the wife whose husband will no longer sleep with her; think of the husband who finds himself burdened with an authority which is not his).

What bearing does this have on the habit? Religious - even active - are for good reasons "set apart" in various ways. They live (generally) together, in buildings set apart for them; they follow a timetable which is quite different to that of most non-religious; [i]and they wear a habit[/i].

Ok, not all of them do (some legitimately, some not), but in general. But does the rest of the world have metal grills or big "Enclosure" signs cordoning off part of their houses? Whilst in some cultures visitors don't usually venture beyond the living/dining room, kitchen and toilet, in others the entire house is, literally, open to guests (and on their first visit they may well expect a guided tour). Do non-religious, as a rule, puncture their day with Mass, at least five Offices, and anything up to two and a half hours of silent personal prayer? Do they call each other (when the relationship is appropriate) Sister and Brother (or is it normally "GIMME BACK MY BOOK ELSE I'LL TELL DAD!")? Do they eat together in relative calm or silence?

Put simply, beyond a certain point the lives of religious and non-religious are wisely kept apart; I think that the wearing of the habit is beyond that point.

Oh yes - my opinion, right

[tnavarro61]

I am also against on laity wearing religious habits. i mentioned it in another discussion here in phatmass but i think this is more appropriate here. I know of one confraternity of young men, and young boys (12 years old, 11, 10..) who proudly wear their "habits". In their website, they refer it as their habits and this is very misleading. they are into religious relics, under the disguise of "promoting the spirituality of the saints". visiting their personal blogs, they seem to treat the religious relics as collections, showing them off to the public, and sometimes treating them as trading cards (like the pokemon cards , you know).

going back to the habit, i think i saw one member wearing an all-white tunic with a franciscan belt in one of the religious professions in my spiritual director's community which is Carmelite. so people might think he;s a religious and that's a cruel deception.

children come to him and ask for his blessings. i find it very awful. children are asking for his blessing because they might be thinking that he's a religious brother, but the fact is he isn;t/

so i think the laity must retain their (our) hiddeness of our "consecration" to God, our humility.

[DameAgnes]

Well, I hate to seem unkind but I am not sure a priest (even if he is a pastor) has the authority to tell someone it's okay for them to wear a habit. A bishop, that's a different thing. A bishop could certainly give credible permission and reassurance.

Frankly, and I do not mean to wound but say this in charity, unless the lay person is a "promesa" (someone who has permission from a bishop to wear the habit for a period of time as an expression of penance or thanksgiving) I think it indicates a presumption, and perhaps a neurosis on the part of the wearer. It cannot help but be conspicuous (look at me!) and it has an element of playacting to it, and can have the harmful effect of diluting the meaning of a habit in the life of vowed religious.

I am very much against this, and would suggest to anyone who is tempted to wear a habit - even "to mass only" - while not actively a member of a religious order, or someone who has been approved by the bishop as a consecrated person, hermit, anchoress, etc.

I can't tell you how much I hate the idea of lay Catholics order a "habit" from a medieval costumer online and then going to mass dressed this way. It seems unhealthy to me.

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='DameAgnes' post='1799836' date='Mar 7 2009, 01:51 PM']Well, I hate to seem unkind but I am not sure a priest (even if he is a pastor) has the authority to tell someone it's okay for them to wear a habit. A bishop, that's a different thing. A bishop could certainly give credible permission and reassurance.[/quote]

I agree that just asking a priest doesn't seem sufficient - but I think the problem could be solved quite easily.

Anyone who wants to wear a habit, who is not in a religious community, should first check with their Bishop. If he gives permission, then I guess it is ok while living in that Diocese. If he says no, then the question is answered!

[AVE_MARIA]

I'm from Germany (Bavaria to be exact). And in Germany it is by state law forbidden to wear a habit or collar in public if you're not a religious or priest (I'm not quite sure about deacons and seminarians)

A habit or collar is seen as a sort of uniform (like police, firefighters and so on wear...) and if you're not what your dress is representing it is illegal. Like some of you alredy said it is misleading to the people and you could harm real religious and priests.

That beeing said i personaly don't think it is a sin to wear one (except maybe if you wear it to get attention and respect that sounds kind of vain to me) but i don't want to judge or hurt somebody it's up to everyones conscience as long as the church or state don't forbidde it.
BUT i don't approve wearing a habit if you'r not a religious. Out of respect for religiouse you shouldn't do so. If your dressing simple, plain and modestly and your mistaken for a religiouse or postulant thats one thing but purposely dressing "up" as one quite another.

[puellapaschalis]

Not quite trivial, not completely on-topic, but possibly interesting fact (which I actually may not be remembering correctly): in England and Wales (not sure about the rest of the UK) it is illegal for Catholic clergy to wear a cassock in public. Left-over from the recusant days.

[Maria Faustina]

I totally agree with what most of you are saying. The habit should not be worn unless you are a member of a religious community. Wearing a large crucifix or Rosary is another thing- and I believe that is totally acceptable. But when you get to the point of wearing an entire habit and you are not a religious or a hermit, that's where a problem is created. I believe it creates a lot of confusion to the people around you and maybe even yourself if you wear a religious habit one day, but the next day you go back to wearing normal clothes. A religious sister's habit is a lot like her wedding dress; it sets her apart from every other Catholic and tells the world that she belongs to Jesus alone. Besides, why would one wear a "wedding dress" if they were not getting "married"? I don't find the practice of normal lay persons wearing religious garb making sense. It's up to you and Jesus if the habit makes you focus on your prayer, however, I don't think it takes special clothes to focus completely on prayer. I'm sure Jesus would rather you come as you are, instead of as something you are not.

[AccountDeleted]

I guess I wonder what you would say if you were wearing a habit and someone asked what order you belonged to? Do you say "None, I just like wearing the habit?"

The more I think about it, the stranger it seems to wear a habit in public if one is not a member of a religious community! Holiness is in the heart, and Jesus was condemning of those who "cleaned the outside of the bowl and not the inside" so I doubt that He would consider it a good thing to pretend to be a religious when one is not.

I don't mean this to sound uncharitable, but to anyone who is doing this now (wearing a habit in public but not in a religious community), I would just say -- think about it again - maybe it isn't such a great idea after all!

[kavalamyself]

A question was asked, I answered. Since my priest blessed and ok'd this practice for me, I find no reason to go to the Bishop. We have plenty of sisters in our parish and they don't wear a habit! At least someone in our parish is keeping a tradition alive. I think some of the comments, especially regarding personal psychological issues - neurotic ? - are out of bounds. I am not going to say anything more because whatever I will say will just sound defensive. If you don't want to wear a habit, then don't, and I do not present myself as a sister in a community. I am, however a daughter of the Lord, and I try to be a sister in Jesus to all.

[dominicansoul]

I also do not understand a lay person wearing a habit unless he/she is under some type of vow or in a formation program (ie. novice.)

Recently, I was a lay member of a new religious community. The discussion came up that as lay members, we should wear a habit. I was totally against that. I am absolutely opposed to anyone wearing the habit that is not bound in some way to the sacred consecration it implies. In other words, if you are not a novice in a community, or have not made a public vow to God, then you shouldn't be wearing it. I may be wrong, but I thought only a Bishop can give a person the right to wear religious garb. And only then, most Bishops make these kinds of decisions in regard to new religious communities in the stage of "Private Associations of Christ's Faithful" (ie. persons on their way to total consecration, and NOT laity!)

It does give the wrong impression and is deceiving to wear such a garb if you are not under some type of religious formation, or not a religious at all.

I was a Dominican novice once, and I used to "hug" my habit every morning before I put it on. It was extremely precious to me. Wearing it is a HUGE responsibility. I remember more than I can count, my Sisters and I bringing people to tears when they saw us wearing our habits... That's how powerful the habit is! They were not delighted in me, nor did I bring them to tears....the habit was the main reason, not me! The habit takes on it's own importance, even apart from the person wearing it...because of what it symbolizes. I discovered that most of these reactions were based on the fact that people found hope and rejoiced that authentic religious life is making a comeback...

I can still remember some of the comments..."What are you?" "How beautiful!" "Do they still make you wear those? That's great!" "I haven't seen a 'real' sister before!"

I found most people taking delight in the fact that there were young, vibrant religious in existence in the Church today.

...

[Digitaldame]

I've only just seen this discussion and think it's worth noting that, according to the Church's traditional understanding of the religious habit, it is something that has to be GIVEN by legitimate authority and RECEIVED. It isn't something one takes upon/for oneself.

[puellapaschalis]

[quote name='kavalamyself' post='1800393' date='Mar 8 2009, 04:51 PM']A question was asked, I answered. Since my priest blessed and ok'd this practice for me, I find no reason to go to the Bishop. We have plenty of sisters in our parish and they don't wear a habit! At least someone in our parish is keeping a tradition alive. I think some of the comments, especially regarding personal psychological issues - neurotic ? - are out of bounds. I am not going to say anything more because whatever I will say will just sound defensive. If you don't want to wear a habit, then don't, and I do not present myself as a sister in a community. I am, however a daughter of the Lord, and I try to be a sister in Jesus to all.[/quote]

I can imagine that you might feel a little "on the defensive" reading this topic. I for my part have tried to keep my posts here as "impersonal" as possible - talking and critiquing ideas and practices, not people. If what I have written here has construed a personal comment on your situation - which I do not know and have no ability to comment on - please accept my apologies.

[Mari Therese]

One of my friends, wore a habit for a couple of years, she only did so under the permission of our Bishop. That Bishop died and we got a new one, he asked her to take off the habit because she wasn't a member of a religious community, nor was she going to start a new community anytime soon. He felt that she would be misleading others, and that only vowed sister's in a community should wear a habit.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Digitaldame' post='1800424' date='Mar 8 2009, 12:00 PM']I've only just seen this discussion and think it's worth noting that, according to the Church's traditional understanding of the religious habit, it is something that has to be GIVEN by legitimate authority and RECEIVED. It isn't something one takes upon/for oneself.[/quote]

Absolutely.

[AccountDeleted]

[quote]A question was asked, I answered. Since my priest blessed and ok'd this practice for me, I find no reason to go to the Bishop. We have plenty of sisters in our parish and they don't wear a habit! At least someone in our parish is keeping a tradition alive. I think some of the comments, especially regarding personal psychological issues - neurotic ? - are out of bounds. I am not going to say anything more because whatever I will say will just sound defensive. If you don't want to wear a habit, then don't, and I do not present myself as a sister in a community. I am, however a daughter of the Lord, and I try to be a sister in Jesus to all.[/quote]

I think if one is going to do something like wear the habit in public while not a memeber of a religious community, then naturally one would have to be prepared to deal with a certain amount of criticism from others who disagree with this.

You see no reason to go to your Bishop, and that is your choice, but if it might silence others and avoid scandal, then perhaps it is worth considering as an idea? If you are afraid that your Bishop might refuse, then this is an even greater reason to do it! After all, obedience is more important than our personal feelings. If he supports your priest however, then you have silenced all critics! so I see it as a win-win situation for you.

When St Teresa was afraid to tell people about some of her experiences, God told her that people would either give Him praise for these things, or ridicule her - and in either case, there was great benefit!

For humility's sake, think about asking your Bishop for permission too. My prayers are with you

Edited March 8, 2009 by nunsense