Pic Of Sr. Rosalind In New Veil

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='puellapaschalis' post='1797501' date='Mar 4 2009, 03:51 PM']I can't comment on the rest of your post, which was very good and interesting reading, because I don't know anything. But in relation to this paragraph, perhaps the following is of interest: when Mother Teresa left the convent, she was still a Loreto sister. She had, on the advice of her director and the Ordinary (her superiors in Ireland had left the decision to her), asked Rome for permission to live outside the convent building, rather than a dispensation from her vows themselves.

Would that have been significant in the example you cite?[/quote]


You do have a point there because nuns who are exclaustrated are often allowed to continue wearing a habit, since they are still in vows, although not living in their community. And Mother Teresa probably got the MC started before her exclaustration expired.

In some cases though (one I know of), the exclaustration expired and the sister just continued to wear a habit, stating that she was starting her own new community. She took private vows under a Bishop, but had no official paperwork to state that she was a new community or even a private association, since she didn't have other members yet. If this is allowed, then couldn't Rosalind do something similar? I doubt it, since she is so high profile, but that is why this whole area is very vague (and perhaps depends upon the Bishop of a particular diocese??). Enquiring minds want to know

[Gemma]

[quote name='nunsense' post='1797484' date='Mar 4 2009, 06:21 PM']That's what confuses me too. I haven't found anything in canon law about the habit, and yet members of established Third Orders or laity like the OCDS are not permitted to wear a habit in public. On the other hand, many of the new and emerging communities (and also individuals in private vows) are wearing habits. I find this all very confusing. I understand wearing a type of postulant outfit, but to me, the taking of the habit implies the beginning of the canonical Novitiate year for an established community (or at least one that has been approved) - but of course I am obviously wrong since so many people are wearing habits who are not in this situation. To mention just a few of the private and de facto associations that wear habits (and this is not a criticism - just a query) - there are the Eudists of the Eleventh Hour and the Sisters of the Sacred Cross (and some of these women are married!), the Sisters of Christian Love (of which there is only one member) and of course, many hermits that have not yet taken public vows.

It just seems to me that anyone on their own could put on a habit and declare themself to be a religious, or the founder/ress of a new community that is "awaiting approval" - so I am wondering if we have any canon lawyers on here who know the real rules??

I have wondered about this for awhile now - but haven't been able to find anyone who seems to know the answer. But there must be a precedent because when Mother Teresa left her convent, she had her sari blessed as a habit, and this was even before she started the MC.

Please note that I am NOT criticising anyone here - I am just very interested in the real rules about this. Can anyone who considers themself to be "consecrated" to the Lord, or who has taken private vows to a priest or Bishop, be allowed to design and wear their own habit?? Curious - just curious.[/quote]

They have to be working with a canonist, who is then in touch with the bishop. The bishop will know about the project, and canon law says that he is to be a nurturing father to the emerging charism.

My biggest point about emerging communities is that if they are not allowed to wear the habit--particularly in the US--their chances of attracting vocations is almost nil.

There are many emerging charisms out there who don't have the needed guidelines--like the Seven Pillars (and the groundwork that goes before that).

The Servants of the Sacred Cross may eventually be recognized as a lay association of the faithful, or something similar to a third order, but for now they have papers only from the Anglican Church, and have tremendous support from the Catholic Church. There are Catholic vocations to this community, as I get emails from women who spell out their desires which fit the SSC to a 't'.

As I've said before, everything has to be done with a spiritual director and a canonist. I usually advise founders to avoid the vicar for religious, and avoid going straight to the bishop. Everything has to evolve before the bishop is contacted. Contacting the bishop is like sending in a resume--cover letter and one page. They read the letter, then look at the one sheet. The charism having its act together is like that one sheet resume--he should be able to see at a glance what you're all about.

If anybody takes on a habit, without papers or a reference person within the diocese, they are bogus.

Blessings,
Gemma

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='Gemma' post='1797511' date='Mar 4 2009, 04:16 PM']If anybody takes on a habit, without papers or a reference person within the diocese, they are bogus.

Blessings,
Gemma[/quote]


This is what I can't find any documentation about! The SSSC don't have anything that validates them in the Catholic Church, but that doesn't mean that they are necessarily "bogus". It may just be that their advisors say they can wear the habit? similar to the Eudists? They are a lay association but they wear a habit. I just would like to see something definitive about this from someone who is an authority!

The CARA publication lists so many new and emerging communities - and most of these wear some form of habit.

Edited March 4, 2009 by nunsense

[kavalamyself]

I wear a habit when I go to Mass. It makes me feel holy. I bought it from Gothic Garments. It helps me get into the feeling of what it will be like to be a nun. I recommend this practice to others. There are no rules against it.

[Gemma]

[quote name='kavalamyself' post='1797939' date='Mar 5 2009, 02:41 AM']I wear a habit when I go to Mass. It makes me feel holy. I bought it from Gothic Garments. It helps me get into the feeling of what it will be like to be a nun. I recommend this practice to others. There are no rules against it.[/quote]

There are unwritten rules about it. If you're expecting to get into a religious congregation after doing that, you might be in for a shock. If they hear about it, they will think you unsuitable for the life.

Blessings,
Gemma

[osapientia]

[quote name='Gemma' post='1797977' date='Mar 5 2009, 07:33 AM']There are unwritten rules about it. If you're expecting to get into a religious congregation after doing that, you might be in for a shock. If they hear about it, they will think you unsuitable for the life.

Blessings,
Gemma[/quote]

Please pardon me in advance - I honestly mean no disrespect...I'm just feeling a little frustrated with this particular topic....and please don't take this to mean I think anything should be done without careful thought and consideration under legitimate authority....BUT......if we can't even get clarity on the WRITTEN RULES (FROM legitimate authority), for heaven's sake how is ANYONE supposed to be responsible to know and adhere to the UNWRITTEN ONES? Who spoke them? Where do they come from? How does one find them out?

It seems we have many, many rules and/or nuances and/or interpretations on top of unwritten rules, nuances, opinions and interpretations for something that in the end is a SIGN of consecration, not consecration itself. I'm the first to stand up and say it is a BEAUTIFUL sign and one we ought to KEEP.....but it is only a SIGN.

Maybe it's the word, "habit vs uniform". Perhaps we, out of our good intentions "put something" into the word habit that isn't really there? I can't help but wonder if saddle horse riders, official/professional and unofficial/lay have as many issues around the clothing they wear...which is, after all, a habit. If they do, then I must conclude it's THE WORD.

Edited March 5, 2009 by osapientia

[puellapaschalis]

Myself this is all a bit fuzzy and personal, but even though I absolutely long to wear the habit, I'm not going to do so before I actually can. Ok, years ago a whimple was everyday dress for women, but now it's taken on a different and much more specific meaning - to name but one (possible) item of the habit for women.

Why? I don't want to dress as though I've really and truly given my life over to God by means of vows when I haven't in fact done so. To only wear it at certain times (even if that time is Holy Mass) but not at others relates (in my mind at least) to the practise of some religious who wear their habits during some parts of the day but not at others (I'm counting work habits and night habits all under the same umbrella here).

I may definitely [i]desire[/i] to dedicate myself in such a way; and that desire in itself is good. Such a desire will want to manifest itself in some way. But I think for those who have not yet formally entered a community, it's not advisable to wear a habit, even for Mass (members of the 3rd order who have permission are obviously exempt from this because in a way they are part of an order). There are more appropriate ways of showing this longing to be with Christ.

If people are part of a brand new congregation and are part of that process then if the Bishop gives them permission, then that's something else too - even if that process itself can be frustratingly imprecise.

[osapientia]

[quote name='puellapaschalis' post='1798002' date='Mar 5 2009, 09:34 AM']Myself this is all a bit fuzzy and personal, but even though I absolutely long to wear the habit, I'm not going to do so before I actually can. Ok, years ago a whimple was everyday dress for women, but now it's taken on a different and much more specific meaning - to name but one (possible) item of the habit for women.

Why? I don't want to dress as though I've really and truly given my life over to God by means of vows when I haven't in fact done so. To only wear it at certain times (even if that time is Holy Mass) but not at others relates (in my mind at least) to the practise of some religious who wear their habits during some parts of the day but not at others (I'm counting work habits and night habits all under the same umbrella here).

I may definitely [i]desire[/i] to dedicate myself in such a way; and that desire in itself is good. Such a desire will want to manifest itself in some way. But I think for those who have not yet formally entered a community, it's not advisable to wear a habit, even for Mass (members of the 3rd order who have permission are obviously exempt from this because in a way they are part of an order). There are more appropriate ways of showing this longing to be with Christ.

If people are part of a brand new congregation and are part of that process then if the Bishop gives them permission, then that's something else too - even if that process itself can be frustratingly imprecise.[/quote]

I really like "fuzzy and personal" and "frustratingly imprecise". Perfect! Regarding new communities, and other forms of consecrated life recently "renewed", I think that's exactly where the Church is on this issue right now. No one need go further than their local Ordinary, if the permission is given it's given. I think if I were an "emerging charism", I'd want to be a sign of that charism. It puts a person in a real pickle if you say "You can't do something until you approach us for permission and then say, you can't approach for permission until you've done something". It seems to me that it's a bit like this right now for emerging communities - you must SHOW committment to and the ability to live OUT the life before you approach the Bishop but on the other hand you can't live the life publically until you have permission from the Bishop. Yes, frustrating and imprecise indeed.

I personally would go with Puella's "way" for the most part, though I'd be bit more inclined toward NOT wearing it 24/7. I like nightgowns. IMHO work habits and veils are a bit of a pain, unless you are allowed to attend the Divine Office in them. YIKES

[Gemma]

[quote name='osapientia' post='1797995' date='Mar 5 2009, 09:12 AM']Please pardon me in advance - I honestly mean no disrespect...I'm just feeling a little frustrated with this particular topic....and please don't take this to mean I think anything should be done without careful thought and consideration under legitimate authority....BUT......if we can't even get clarity on the WRITTEN RULES (FROM legitimate authority), for heaven's sake how is ANYONE supposed to be responsible to know and adhere to the UNWRITTEN ONES? Who spoke them? Where do they come from? How does one find them out?

It seems we have many, many rules and/or nuances and/or interpretations on top of unwritten rules, nuances, opinions and interpretations for something that in the end is a SIGN of consecration, not consecration itself. I'm the first to stand up and say it is a BEAUTIFUL sign and one we ought to KEEP.....but it is only a SIGN.

Maybe it's the word, "habit vs uniform". Perhaps we, out of our good intentions "put something" into the word habit that isn't really there? I can't help but wonder if saddle horse riders, official/professional and unofficial/lay have as many issues around the clothing they wear...which is, after all, a habit. If they do, then I must conclude it's THE WORD. [/quote]

The habit is both mystery and sacramental.

How do we treat sacramentals? How do we feel when we see non-Catholics walking around with a rosary around their neck just because they think it's cool?

My husband is former army, and he does not appreciate it when civilians walk around in green camo.

Those who walk around in police uniforms are usually arrested for impersonating a police officer.

Canon 669 deals specifically with the religious habit. Look it up.

Common sense and prudence are what it all boils down to. I know we're not supposed to obsess with what others think of us, but when it comes to that, we have to be considerate of others. We cannot afford to mislead the faithful. That's why habits are reserved to those who have made some kind of consecration--or are part of an emerging charism. "Defacto" means "practice."

Blessings,
Gemma

[Gemma]

[quote name='puellapaschalis' post='1798002' date='Mar 5 2009, 09:34 AM']...process itself can be frustratingly imprecise.[/quote]

Thanks for finally putting words to this!

As I said before, one has to contact the canonist first. The canonist answers directly to the bishop on such matters. Therefore, the bishop knows about it, but the bishop, unless he's a founder or canonist himself, relies on the canonist to interpret canon law in regards to emerging communities.

Herein lies the problem--way too many canonists are not familiar with the ins and outs of religious canon law (canons pertaining specifically to the religious life)!!! Therefore, we have dioceses doing all sorts of strange things when it comes to emerging communities.

And that's what we're trying to correct. Our canonist is one of maybe two in the US who know religious canon law, and we're developing a website telling--from a founder's POV--the process.

Canonist Therese Ivers is also developing a website called "Do I have a Vocation?" Someone can google it and post it here.

HTH.

Blessings,
Gemma

[osapientia]

[quote name='Gemma' post='1798021' date='Mar 5 2009, 10:20 AM']Look it up.

Blessings,
Gemma[/quote]

Excuse me. I think perhaps you meant something like, "I'd like to suggest you look up Canon 669 if you are unfamiliar with it".

Canon 669 requires that members of religious institutes wear a distinctive habit...it doesn't say anything about what not to wear.

Canon 669:
Religious are to wear the habit of the institute made according to the norm of proper law as a sign of their consecration and as a testimony of poverty. Clerical religious of an institute which does not have its own habit are to wear clerical dress according to the norm of canon 284.

[Gemma]

[quote name='osapientia' post='1798036' date='Mar 5 2009, 10:52 AM']Excuse me. I think perhaps you meant something like, "I'd like to suggest you look up Canon 669 if you are unfamiliar with it".

Canon 669 requires that members of religious institutes wear a distinctive habit...it doesn't say anything about what not to wear.

Canon 669:
Religious are to wear the habit of the institute made according to the norm of proper law as a sign of their consecration and as a testimony of poverty. Clerical religious of an institute which does not have its own habit are to wear clerical dress according to the norm of canon 284.[/quote]

No harm intended, dear. My life moves so quickly that I have to compact thoughts. Mea culpa if you are offended. As I said, such was not my intention.

I can tell everyone that from my personal experience, those who insist on wearing a religious habit without being a religious are usually told by the local bishop to cease and desist. Charity forbids that I state specific cases. Even to wear a habit to a public mass as a third order member requires the bishop's permission. I know that one from first-hand experience.

Blessings,
Gemma

[Maggyie]

Bishops absolutely do NOT take kindly to people wearing habits in public when they are not yet religious. Basically it's viewed as presenting yourself as something you're not. Kavala if you are wearing a habit to Mass for "practice" I think you need to ask your pastor (or your bishop) if it is all right. He is going to say no.

[stlmom]

Forgive me all of you for initially asking the question about Rosalind Moss's garb, which appears to me to be habit and veil now. I was surprised to see the change in dress from the jumpers she and her former companions wore and were photographed in our archdiocesan newspaper (St. Louis Review). I wondered if I'd missed some new development in the evolution of the community she's attempting to found. I was operating under the assumption that some sort of official recognition had to take place before wearing a distinct habit in public, or that an individual had to be moved from the postulancy to novitiate before taking on a habit. We sure need a new archbishop here soon, as I don't know who is guiding Rosalind at this point.

[DevotedtoHim]

Yes, back to the subject though I am interested in hearing if anybody else wears a habit.

Does Rosalind Moss have a name in religion or is she wearing this and just going by "Sister Rosalind?"

Thanks if you know.

Katherine