We Should Be Ashamed Of Our Hatred -mature Content!

[Paladin D]

[quote name='bonkers' post='1790242' date='Feb 24 2009, 06:51 AM']I'm completely fine with atheism. [b]Granted, we don't get to believe in things like afterlife and grand reunions with long lost loved one's, but we know these things aren't true and it's worthless to believe in things which aren't true.[/b] Reality is always better than false hope. Are you suggesting that I secretely know Catholicism is the truth and am in some sort of denial or something? I find it amusing how you apparently know more about me than I do. I want to make it very clear, I find your dogma laughable and am perplexed how intelligent people can believe in any of this stuff. I'm not saying this to be offensive, it's what I genuinely beleive. I think beliefs are very odd.[/quote]

Emphasis mine.

There is something that both athiests and religious persons do share in this regard, we both have faith that we are 'right'. I would say it's more of a stretch to outright deny any supernatural/spiritual deity or force, than it is to believe in one. On top of that, I believe it's riskier to be an athiest than one who isn't, look up Pascal's Wager as to why.

It is ironic that a number of athiests also share the same quality of being arrogant and stubborn in their stances just as some in the religious community.

[Winchester]

[quote name='bonkers' post='1790242' date='Feb 24 2009, 05:51 AM']I want to make it very clear, I find your dogma laughable and am perplexed how intelligent people can believe in any of this stuff. I'm not saying this to be offensive,[/quote]Yes you are. I find it laughable that you try to put this over on people you claim to see as "intelligent."

In your world, there is no morality. Luckily, you live in a world run by a Judeo-Christian outlook (albeit an askew outlook).

[bonkers]

[quote name='TotusTuusMaria' post='1790259' date='Feb 24 2009, 08:27 AM']If God is perfect he cannot be without justice. Angels and men alike decided that there should be a hell. They wanted it. He did it in his justice. Angels and man a like have turned away from him and wanted nothing to do with Him. He is a God of justice just as He is a God of love.[/quote]

I find it very strange this perfect god demonstrates his perfect justice and love via an eternal torture chamber. Like there is no other alternative, it has to be an eternal torture chamber otherwise god isn't perfect. Very strange indeed. But then again, there's the whole ignorance and lack of grace thing I'm subject too blinding me from seeing this very obvious truth. Doesn't that sound the least bit odd to you? Doesn't it sound more like something some men made up to make people fearful?

[quote]I find it very sad that you don't love our Lord. He loves you. [/quote]

Edited February 24, 2009 by bonkers

[cmotherofpirl]

"QUOTE (Zoecool13 @ Feb 24 2009, 12:13 AM)
As for those of you who hate Sean Penn and homosexuals, I'd really suggest you dive back into your Bible. It's you that give good Catholics a bad name."


[color="#0000FF"]I don't recall a SINGLE person in this thread saying they hated homosexuals, not one catholic here said that. Maybe you could start over with an apology and actually read the thread again.
Last I checked thinking Sean Penn is a lousy actor is not homophobia.
So yes you do owe people here an apology.[/color]

[bonkers]

[quote name='Winchester' post='1790280' date='Feb 24 2009, 10:30 AM']Yes you are. I find it laughable that you try to put this over on people you claim to see as "intelligent."

In your world, there is no morality. Luckily, you live in a world run by a Judeo-Christian outlook (albeit an askew outlook).[/quote]

I'm not being deliberately offensive. If you claimed I was deceived by the devil or ignorant, I would react offensively but your intention would not be to offend me. Likewise, I think your beliefs are the equivalent of adult fairy tales. If you were an atheist, how would you think about Christian stories such as crucifixtion, resurrection and things like heaven, hell, angels and demons? They would probably sound really absurd to you and it is in my opinion that they are.

[Ash Wednesday]

[img]http://www.lwwdc.org/Spicoli3.jpg[/img]

[bonkers]

[quote name='Paladin D' post='1790278' date='Feb 24 2009, 10:20 AM']Emphasis mine.

There is something that both athiests and religious persons do share in this regard, we both have faith that we are 'right'. I would say it's more of a stretch to outright deny any supernatural/spiritual deity or force, than it is to believe in one. On top of that, I believe it's riskier to be an athiest than one who isn't, look up Pascal's Wager as to why.

It is ironic that a number of athiests also share the same quality of being arrogant and stubborn in their stances just as some in the religious community.[/quote]

Sure, it is the human condition to think that we little humans with our pee brains are capable of understanding and knowing truth more so than everyone else. This little delusion exists in all of us. I admit I might be wrong, can you? It's difficult to admit this, because it leads to that fear of uncertaintly and I think that's something most people seek to avoid through denial and rationalization. I think Pascal's Wager is terrible, firstly because there's no guarantee youve chosen the correct god, and secondly because the man who chooses to believe in god on the account there might be a hell is kind of weak.

I think there are arrogant, stubborn people in every belief group, Catholicism no exception.

[Hassan]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' post='1790260' date='Feb 24 2009, 08:31 AM']How are homosexual unions "inter-racial marriage"? Two gay men are not two different races.[/quote]


Not to long ago Christian in the south used the Bible to justify their opposition to inter racial marriage. I was refering to that. If you beleive inter racial marriage is wrong that's fine, and if you beleive gay marriage is wrong that's fine. If you do not want your church to sanction such unions that is absolutly fine. But please don't use the secular state or federal laws to force your religious beleifs on others.

[Hassan]

[quote name='TotusTuusMaria' post='1790263' date='Feb 24 2009, 08:49 AM'] Unforunately for your argument, there is a such thing as truth so no matter if you want to believe in homosexuality being "morally wrong" or not, it is. Human beings are not made to have sexual relationships with persons of the same sex. It is, like it or not, perverse: contrary and counter[/quote]

Sure there is truth. Given your obvious hatred of Uzbeks and your overt Russian nationalism I doubt you will take a Polish Logician seriously but his work was of great importance.

[url="http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/tarski-truth/"]http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/tarski-truth/[/url]



[quote]

What constitues a "meaningful life" ?[/quote]

meaningful to the individual

[quote]Just to clarify, people who suffer from SSA have the same rights and opprotunities as everyone else. They also even have the opprotunity to get married and have children (with a person of the opposite sex, as human beings, judging from how "sex" actually works, are made to do).[/quote]

Sure, and individuals who want to marry someone of another race have the same rights as everyone else, they are just as free to marry and have children wth someone of the same race.

[quote]A homosexual civil union or "marriage" is not a "right"

A human right is based on the dignity of the human person and what we should and should not afford that human being in light of that dignity. Homosexual relationships are against the dignity of human persons. We are not made for such relations. In the end, homosexual marriage is not a "right" in the sense of something that a human being deserves in light of his human dignity, or something that society should legitimize.[/quote]

Your free to beleive that, but why take that personal beleif and try to force it on others?



[quote]

lame.[/quote]

you're lame

[Norseman82]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1789930' date='Feb 24 2009, 12:01 AM']However trying to use state law to block people from leading meaningful lives and having the same opertunities and rights as other Americans is wrong and I do think that those who voted against it should take a look at themselves in the mirror.[/quote]
[mod]Mature content. --Era Might[/mod]

[T-Bone _]

[quote name='bonkers' post='1790238' date='Feb 24 2009, 03:13 AM']Palin - it's funny how just about everyone thought she was an incompetent bimbo except for pro-lifers.[/quote]

What does Palin have to do with this?

You accused someone of disliking Penn's acting just because of his political stance. There is no evidence for that.

[quote]Atheists are allowed to have opinions, we just don't proclaim them as the absolute and final truth and except everyone to mindlessly obey them.[/quote]

Atheists claim that their opinions are based on fact. It is evident that your statement is not based on fact at all, but a fantasy based on your own skewed perceptions.

[Sirklawd]

im going to be especially blunt here. I'm sick and tired of people who fight tooth and nail for gay rights only to duck and twist at the prospect of other forms of marriage becoming legal too. When polygamy is brought up, they just write off the idea as absurd. No, what is absurd is someone fighting for equal rights and then putting limits on it.

If you are fighting for equal marriage rights know that you [i]have to be open to every form of marriage[/i] not just the one you are fighting for. And you have to be for these forms of marriage [i]right now[/i]. Not in some possible slippery sloped future, but right. now.

polygyny, polyandry, polyamory, bigamy, circle marriages, incestual marriages, human-animal marraiges...

I mean, seriously, if religious and personal opinions do not matter (something christians are told all too constantly), who the hell are you to say these marriages arnt marriages, or arnt equal to other forms of marriage?

Is this making sense yet? If the argument is 'equal rights'. Then its all or nothing or youre just as bad as "us".

So whats the problem with this? It means the government must recognize any and all forms of marriage, past, present and future. Whatever anyone can come up with. Essentially, this will mean the government will be handing out these rights to basically everyone. Aside from being a joke, it raises the question that no one in this debate is asking - why does the government even give out these rights to married people in the first place?? Why not just give them to everyone from the start? or the reverse - why not just not give them out and shut everyone up?

Either all forms of marriage are equal - and thus no one is special, or a particular definition of marriage [i]is[/i] important to society, and needs to be encouraged above the rest. Can those in favor of gay marriage come up with a reason? Those in favor of traditional marriage can.


ps: im sick of all this hate nonsense. to disagree with a political view is not hate. A person can disagree with a form of marriage and still like a person.

[HisChildForever]

I said this on another thread but I want to repeat it - no one should be surprised by his acceptance speech. Unless I am mistaken, the recipient [u]typically[/u] says something about the character he or she played. And since homosexuality is a controversial topic and we are talking about liberal Hollywood here...well, I fully expected a little something to be said. I only watched the tail end of the Oscars so I was unaware of the Westboro crowd. If they were not there, would Penn have mentioned Prop 8? I sort of doubt it. I could be wrong though.

[quote name='Zoecool13' post='1789965' date='Feb 24 2009, 12:26 AM']Therefore, by posting in this thread and not denouncing the title, many have implied through sarcasm, or lack of stating, that they are not ashamed, and that the hatred is there. has anyone said hate? yes... it's in the title.[/quote]

The title does not imply this at all. My first impression was that the OP was being sarcastic, since Penn insinuated that anyone who does not support homosexual unions should be ashamed of themselves, because not supporting the unions must mean we are haters. The title is even more sarcastic in the sense that we do NOT hate homosexuals, NOR are we ashamed with what the Church teaches.

[T-Bone _]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1790347' date='Feb 24 2009, 10:03 AM']The title does not imply this at all. My first impression was that the OP was being sarcastic, since Penn insinuated that anyone who does not support homosexual unions should be ashamed of themselves, because not supporting the unions must mean we are haters. The title is even more sarcastic in the sense that we do NOT hate homosexuals, NOR are we ashamed with what the Church teaches.[/quote]

Bingo!

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Norseman82' post='1790314' date='Feb 24 2009, 10:46 AM'][mod]Mature content. --Era Might[/mod][/quote]

I don't think it's merely that. Men have been doing that since... well... for a looooong time.

I think what makes their lives "meaningful" is requiring that the REST of us jump up and down and squeal with giddiness and throw parties to celebrate their lifestyles. Unless everyone is on board with it, their lives have no meaning, I guess.