Hassan Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 [quote name='havok579257' post='1790967' date='Feb 24 2009, 11:30 PM']Your saying the government has no right to restrict someone's rights but then come back and say it can for select instances.[/quote] This would be the third or so time I have corrected your interpretation of my views (on the same issue none the less), I don't feel like doing so again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 [quote name='rkwright' post='1790953' date='Feb 24 2009, 11:19 PM']Hassan, there is no need for an objective verifiable scientific fact to be present in order to restrict someone's rights. All is needed is 51% of the vote.[/quote] That is correct, that does not make it responsible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havok579257 Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 [quote name='Hassan' post='1790983' date='Feb 24 2009, 10:43 PM']That is correct, that does not make it responsible.[/quote] It makes it fair in a democratic society which everyone CHOOSES to live in. Simple as this: You have a choice to live in America or not. If you choose to, then you must follow the rules the government has set in place. Which is majority rules. Now the laws can change. If you get enough people to become the majority, then you can change the laws as you please. Its a give and take. One person should not get everything they want. If they want something and think they deserve it then convince enough people your right and get the laws changed. Its a fair and respoinsible form of government. Really, what other form of government is more responsible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havok579257 Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 [quote name='Hassan' post='1790981' date='Feb 24 2009, 10:41 PM']This would be the third or so time I have corrected your interpretation of my views (on the same issue none the less), I don't feel like doing so again.[/quote] Ok, let me ask this. Does the government have the right to infringe on my right to be nude all the time? If I want to be nude and go out in public, does the government have the right to infringe on my rights. Cause their is no scientific reason against me being nude all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 [quote name='havok579257' post='1790985' date='Feb 24 2009, 11:47 PM']It makes it fair in a democratic society which everyone CHOOSES to live in. Simple as this: You have a choice to live in America or not. If you choose to, then you must follow the rules the government has set in place. Which is majority rules. Now the laws can change. If you get enough people to become the majority, then you can change the laws as you please. Its a give and take. One person should not get everything they want. If they want something and think they deserve it then convince enough people your right and get the laws changed. Its a fair and respoinsible form of government. [b] Really, what other form of government is more responsible?[/b][/quote] One that doesn't make laws based on the private revelations a section of that population claims to be of divine origin but is unable to demonstrate this. If you all can prove that Roman Catholicism is true, or if you were living in a state founded on your religion I wouldn't have a problem with it. If Muslims want a state based of Shar'ia and do not prohibit individuals from leaving I have no problem with this. If Roman Catholics was a state based on your faith good luck to you. I just find your actions irresponsible in a secular state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 [quote name='havok579257' post='1790988' date='Feb 24 2009, 11:48 PM']Ok, let me ask this. Does the government have the right to infringe on my right to be nude all the time? If I want to be nude and go out in public, does the government have the right to infringe on my rights. Cause their is no scientific reason against me being nude all the time.[/quote] I did not say scientific, I said rational and objectively verifiable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havok579257 Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 [quote name='Hassan' post='1790997' date='Feb 24 2009, 10:53 PM']One that doesn't make laws based on the private revelations a section of that population claims to be of divine origin but is unable to demonstrate this. If you all can prove that Roman Catholicism is true, or if you were living in a state founded on your religion I wouldn't have a problem with it. If Muslims want a state based of Shar'ia and do not prohibit individuals from leaving I have no problem with this. If Roman Catholics was a state based on your faith good luck to you. I just find your actions irresponsible in a secular state.[/quote] AGain what form of government? Your listing off idea's. I said what form of government. Also its not a section of the population. The majority of American's believe in a higher power, a creator of the universe. The government can not, nor should appease every single person simply because its impossible. The government should do the will of the people and the will of the people want laws based on christian thinking. YOur stating that the government should base their laws on your beliefs, but not ours. There government should base itself off of the people's beliefs, no matter what they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkwright Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 [quote name='Hassan' post='1790997' date='Feb 24 2009, 10:53 PM']One that doesn't make laws based on the private revelations a section of that population claims to be of divine origin but is unable to demonstrate this. If you all can prove that Roman Catholicism is true, or if you were living in a state founded on your religion I wouldn't have a problem with it. If Muslims want a state based of Shar'ia and do not prohibit individuals from leaving I have no problem with this. If Roman Catholics was a state based on your faith good luck to you. I just find your actions irresponsible in a secular state.[/quote] I think you have it backwards. Its not that the state in and of itself is secular. You can't say 'you can't vote for law X because your voting on religious grounds and the state is secular'. The government and the state is representative of the people. If the people want religious laws in place - thats fine if they can vote it in (as long as we're not talking about a constitutional issues...). People can vote based on their religion. They can vote based on anything they want - objective facts, religious reasons, racial reasons, you name it. Thats how the democracy works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havok579257 Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 [quote name='Hassan' post='1791002' date='Feb 24 2009, 10:56 PM']I did not say scientific, I said rational and objectively verifiable.[/quote] Ok what would be the rational reason and objectively verifiable reason to not let someone run around in public naked? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 [quote name='rkwright' post='1791008' date='Feb 25 2009, 12:01 AM']I think you have it backwards. Its not that the state in and of itself is secular. You can't say 'you can't vote for law X because your voting on religious grounds and the state is secular'. The government and the state is representative of the people. If the people want religious laws in place - thats fine if they can vote it in (as long as we're not talking about a constitutional issues...). People can vote based on their religion. They can vote based on anything they want - objective facts, religious reasons, racial reasons, you name it. Thats how the democracy works.[/quote] I am not saying that a democratic state cannot pass such laws, I simply consider them irresponsible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havok579257 Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 [quote name='Hassan' post='1791014' date='Feb 24 2009, 11:04 PM']I am not saying that a democratic state cannot pass such laws, I simply consider them irresponsible.[/quote] You consider them irresonsible? How are they irresponsible when it is the will of the people? Should the government be allowed to pass laws that are not the will of the people? Is that more responsible? A handful of politicians get to decide the laws even though they go against the will of the people? How is this responsible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 [quote name='Hassan' post='1790925' date='Feb 24 2009, 07:25 PM']I have already responded to it.[/quote] +J.M.J.+ uh, where? cuz i can't find it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 [quote name='Lil Red' post='1791026' date='Feb 25 2009, 12:11 AM']+J.M.J.+ uh, where? cuz i can't find it.[/quote] #88 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 [quote name='havok579257' post='1791022' date='Feb 25 2009, 12:06 AM']You consider them irresonsible? How are they irresponsible when it is the will of the people? Should the government be allowed to pass laws that are not the will of the people? Is that more responsible? A handful of politicians get to decide the laws even though they go against the will of the people? How is this responsible?[/quote] I would not leave it in the hands of government officials, I am proposing the means by which the population would pass laws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havok579257 Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 [quote name='Hassan' post='1791036' date='Feb 24 2009, 11:15 PM']I would not leave it in the hands of government officials, I am proposing the means by which the population would pass laws.[/quote] Your not making any sense. So if the will of the people is to have current laws based on christianity, like now, then how is that wrong? Your saying laws should not be based on christianity type ideals, yet if thats the will of the people is that not the most responsible thing to be done. Have laws reflect what the will of the people is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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