TeresaBenedicta Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 This may be a strange request, but I ask that no Christians views be expressed in response to the situation I will shortly be putting forth. I only mean that the Christian answer is fairly obvious and that I am more interested in philosophical argument here. If any one is familiar with the Principle of Double Effect, that may be helpful. Here's the Situation: You are tied to a railroad track and a villain has set a trolley toward you. If it hits you, you will surely die. However, there is a switch right next to you that provides a way for you to deflect the trolley onto another track. There is another person tied to the other track and if you flip the switch and deflect the trolley, the trolley will kill the other person. Are you morally permitted to flip the switch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 You are allowed to kill to save your life, but the assumption is that it will be the person trying to kill you, not an innocent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeresaBenedicta Posted February 22, 2009 Author Share Posted February 22, 2009 [quote name='CatherineM' post='1787570' date='Feb 21 2009, 10:30 PM']You are allowed to kill to save your life, but the assumption is that it will be the person trying to kill you, not an innocent.[/quote] While it is true in the case of self-defense that one is not permitted to commit an action that will have a negative effect on an innocent, there is the question as to whether or not the principle of double effect can be used to defend the action. So long as you don't intend the death of the innocent, but only to save your own life, is it permissible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 [quote name='TeresaBenedicta' post='1787579' date='Feb 21 2009, 08:40 PM']While it is true in the case of self-defense that one is not permitted to commit an action that will have a negative effect on an innocent, there is the question as to whether or not the principle of double effect can be used to defend the action. So long as you don't intend the death of the innocent, but only to save your own life, is it permissible?[/quote] You have reminded me of why I truly hated law school. I'm taking my headache to bed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeresaBenedicta Posted February 22, 2009 Author Share Posted February 22, 2009 [quote name='CatherineM' post='1787746' date='Feb 22 2009, 12:31 AM']You have reminded me of why I truly hated law school. I'm taking my headache to bed.[/quote] Heh, my apologies. I wasn't [i]intending[/i] to inflict my own sufferings on others... I'm writing a paper on this particular situation, and when I look at things from a purely philosophical mode, I am finding myself force to conclude that it -is- permissible to flip the switch. Yet I don't feel comfortable with that conclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 I would add that even if flipping the switch kills the other innocent person, [b]you[/b] are not the reason why he or she is tied to the tracks. So would the real responsibility for that individual's death be on you, or on the person who tied you both down? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaeology cat Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Not fully awake yet, so I apologise if this is actually clear in the scenario, but is the person tied to the track aware that another person is tied to the other track? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle_eye222001 Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Archaeology cat' post='1787958' date='Feb 22 2009, 02:38 AM']Not fully awake yet, so I apologise if this is actually clear in the scenario, but is the person tied to the track aware that another person is tied to the other track?[/quote] I would assume so as if you had no knowledge of what lay on the other side, you would switch it. So their would be no dilemma. Since the question is stated as such, it appears you do have knowledge that flipping the switch will kill someone else. I think you can flip the switch. If their is no "God" foundation moral, there are no absolutes...I don't see where the wrong could come in. I feel that my answer is you throw the switch. __________ edit After submitting it, I realize that you ask if it is morally okay to throw the switch. Which makes it appear that morals exist outside of the Christian God. So if you assume that morals still exist...................then you need to explain the basis for where those morals come from before you say that you can throw the switch. .....I feel like I am just rambling.... ---------------- Listening to: [url="http://www.foxytunes.com/artist/harry+gregson-williams/track/from+western+woods+to+beaversdam"]Harry Gregson-Williams - From Western Woods To Beaversdam[/url] via [url="http://www.foxytunes.com/signatunes/"]FoxyTunes[/url] Edited February 22, 2009 by eagle_eye222001 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeresaBenedicta Posted February 22, 2009 Author Share Posted February 22, 2009 [quote name='eagle_eye222001' post='1787988' date='Feb 22 2009, 04:06 AM']I would assume so as if you had no knowledge of what lay on the other side, you would switch it. So their would be no dilemma. Since the question is stated as such, it appears you do have knowledge that flipping the switch will kill someone else. I think you can flip the switch. If their is no "God" foundation moral, there are no absolutes...I don't see where the wrong could come in. I feel that my answer is you throw the switch. __________ edit After submitting it, I realize that you ask if it is morally okay to throw the switch. Which makes it appear that morals exist outside of the Christian God. So if you assume that morals still exist...................then you need to explain the basis for where those morals come from before you say that you can throw the switch. .....I feel like I am just rambling....[/quote] I. Yes, the you know that the other person is tied to the track. As was just stated above, if you didn't know, then you would very readily flip the switch. Which, it seems to me, only furthers the point that the action itself is NOT wrong (ie flipping the switch) itself, and therefore if done with the right intention (saving your life), one could accept the side consequence of that action (the death of the other innocent). It seems to me, at least, to fit the entire criterea for Double Effect. II. Ah, yes, you're bringing in further complication. Should I pull a phenomenological [i]epoche[/i] and say that we are just bracketing the Christian God, not doubting or saying God doesn't exist? Or I suppose I could reword my question: "Is it [i]just[/i] for you to pull the switch?" ((In fact, I'll likely do that for my paper-- thank-you)). Essentially what I'm trying to do here is come up with a philosophical line of reasoning that responds to this question. ((As a complete side note, I find that this may bring up some interesting points about revelation and God's work in morality. I'm really hoping for a philosophically sound argument to prove that one should NOT flip the switch, but I'm having trouble finding one that is not flawed. But, it's not too much of a worry if the philosophical answer is different than the Christian answer: It merely shows that there is only so far the reason alone can take us and that the revealed truth of Jesus Christ brings us up a level, so to say.)) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txdinghysailor Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 (edited) I don't care if I'm morally allowed to flip the switch or not, I'm just not gonna flip it. I figure that that other person who could die is probably a better person than me, so they should live. Also, they'll probably end up doing a lot more good in their life then I ever will. Obviously them living would be more beneficial for society than me, so it makes logical sense to not flip the switch. Besides, that way at my funeral they'll say I was a "hero" . Edited February 22, 2009 by txdinghysailor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Bone _ Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Isn't this the same situation that the Joker out the ferry passengers in at the end of the Batman movie? It it my opinion that you may be morally permitted to flip the switch (this akin to the double effect in medicine, like that in treating ectopic pregnancies) , but could you live with yourself afterwards? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 If someone is so cruel to do this kind of thing, they would also be willing to trick you into thinking that pushing the switch would save your life, but in fact actually would kill you instead. So you have no real way of knowing what the switch would in fact do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeresaBenedicta Posted February 22, 2009 Author Share Posted February 22, 2009 [quote name='T-Bone _' post='1788222' date='Feb 22 2009, 01:19 PM']Isn't this the same situation that the Joker out the ferry passengers in at the end of the Batman movie?[/quote] It's similar. Although, in this case, there is no question as to the "worth" of another person's life (criminal vs. non-criminal) and there is much less confusion as to what will really happen. I agree that something in us says that it's wrong to flip the switch... but why? Is there a philosophical reason for it, or must we conclude that preferring another person's life to your own is a concept that can come from God alone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomProddy Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends" -John 15:13. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 [quote name='TeresaBenedicta' post='1788322' date='Feb 22 2009, 01:07 PM']It's similar. Although, in this case, there is no question as to the "worth" of another person's life (criminal vs. non-criminal) and there is much less confusion as to what will really happen. I agree that something in us says that it's wrong to flip the switch... but why? Is there a philosophical reason for it, or must we conclude that preferring another person's life to your own is a concept that can come from God alone?[/quote] Are you allowed to separate natural law from religious morality? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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