1 Timothy 2:5

[LivingStone]

If you haven't already, I'm sure that you will. But 1 Tim 2:5, "For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus", is a renowned Protestant objection to Mary being the Mediatrix or saints being able to mediate for us.

Is there any weakness in the text of 1 Tim itself that could leave open the possibility of Mary and/or the saints being mediators as well? I've looked back at the Greek word for "one mediator" and the word for one is "heis", but I'm uncertain whether this means there can be one (and exclusively only one) mediator.

Thanks.

[CatherineM]

Try some of these. Eph 6:18-19, Tobit 12:12, Rev 5:8, Luke 16:19-30, Romans 15:30.

[Era Might]

This is from the old Catholic Encyclopedia entry on "Mediator":

[quote]A mediator is one who brings estranged parties to an amicable agreement. In New Testament theology the term invariably implies that the estranged beings are God and man, and it is appropriated to Christ, the One Mediator. When special friends of God -- angels, saints, holy men -- plead our cause before God, they mediate "with Christ"; their mediation is only secondary and is better called intercession. Moses, howover, is the proper mediator of the Old Testament (Galatians 3:19-20).

[url="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10118a.htm"]http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10118a.htm[/url][/quote]
Hebrews 7:25 says that Christ makes intercession for us. Yet Protestants believe that Christians on earth can offer intercessory prayer for other people on earth. Does our intercessory prayer take away from Christ's intercession? Of course not. When we intercede for another person, we are not establishing a separate intercession from Christ; rather, we are sharing in Christ's intercession. Since we are united to the Saints in the Body of Christ, they can still pray for us who are on earth. In Revelation 5:8, St. John sees "golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints."

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='LivingStone' post='1785706' date='Feb 19 2009, 07:05 PM']If you haven't already, I'm sure that you will. But 1 Tim 2:5, "For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus", is a renowned Protestant objection to Mary being the Mediatrix or saints being able to mediate for us.

Is there any weakness in the text of 1 Tim itself that could leave open the possibility of Mary and/or the saints being mediators as well? I've looked back at the Greek word for "one mediator" and the word for one is "heis", but I'm uncertain whether this means there can be one (and exclusively only one) mediator.

Thanks.[/quote]
It says one mediator, but it doesn't say only mediator.

[rkwright]

I don't know if this is exactly right, maybe someone can confirm this or set me straight...

But I always thought that Christ was still the one doing the Mediating. We pray to saints to pray to Christ to mediate with God. Like when we pray to God we say 'we ask this through Christ', so I guess praying to God through Christ. Likewise, praying to God through Christ through Mary\Saint\Friend.

[CatherineM]

There is also the Wedding in Cana argument. Jesus didn't want to do what Mary asked, but she was so confident that he would anyway, that she just told the stewards to do as Jesus asked. How many of us can refuse our mom. It's not Mary doing the heavy lifting, but she isn't above doing some mommy nagging. Most people can relate to that imagery.

[Ziggamafu]

We are all mediators in the one Mediator, even as we become, by baptism, sons in the one Son, heirs in the one Heir, redeemers in the one Redeemer etc.

...everything through, with, and in Christ. That's all. I've found this simple explanation to be the most effective.

[icelandic_iceskater]

there's also the fact that the verses before 1 Tim 2:5 specifically ask us to pray for others-

"I urge, then, first of all, that requests, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for everyone— for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth." -1 Tim 2:1-4

The only difference I see between asking for the intercession of saints in heaven and asking the intercession of those on earth is that the saints in heaven are just that much closer to God.

[cmotherofpirl]

Mary’s Mediation Originates with Christ
This Rock
Volume 18, Number 10
December 2007

The Church knows and teaches that all the saving influences of the Blessed Virgin on mankind originate . . . from the divine pleasure. They flow forth from the superabundance of the merits of Christ, rest on his mediation, depend entirely on it, and draw all their power from it. In no way do they impede the immediate union of the faithful with Christ. Rather, they foster this union. This saving influence is sustained by the Holy Spirit, who, just as he overshadowed the Virgin Mary when he began in her the divine motherhood, in a similar way constantly sustains her solicitude for the brothers and sisters of her Son. In effect, Mary’s mediation is intimately linked with her motherhood. It possesses a specifically maternal character, which distinguishes it from the mediation of the other creatures who in various and always subordinate ways share in the one mediation of Christ, although her own mediation is also a shared mediation. In fact, while it is true that no creature could ever be classed with the Incarnate Word and Redeemer, at the same time the unique mediation of the Redeemer does not exclude but rather gives rise among creatures to a manifold cooperation which is but a sharing in this unique source. And thus the one goodness of God is in reality communicated diversely to his creatures. . . With the redeeming death of her Son, the maternal mediation of the handmaid of the Lord took on a universal dimension, for the work of redemption embraces the whole of humanity. Thus there is manifested in a singular way the efficacy of the one and universal mediation of Christ between God and men. Mary’s cooperation shares, in its subordinate character, in the universality of the mediation of the Redeemer, the one Mediator.

—Redemptoris Mater (Mother of the Redeemer), 40

[cmotherofpirl]

also :

[url="http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/1992/9211fea3.asp"]http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/1992/9211fea3.asp[/url]

[LivingStone]

Thanks all of u. You guys are really awesome, coming up with this stuff oh so very quickly. Honestly, you guys rock my socks. Thanks!

[Mr.Cat]

[quote][url="http://www.drbo.org/chapter/61002.htm"][b]1 Timothy 2:2-6[/b][/url]
I desire therefore, first of all, that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men: For kings, and for all that are in high station: that we may lead a quiet and a peaceable life in all piety and chastity. [b]For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour[/b], Who will have all men to be saved, and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator of God and men, the man Christ Jesus: Who gave himself a redemption for all, a testimony in due times.[/quote]If they believe this verse to be so absolute, ask if it is possible to pray for ourselves and others, or if it is possible to pray directly to the Father? If any of these answers are “no”, ask them to pray the Lord’s Prayer and pause on the first two words, “[i]Pater Noster[/i]” ([i]Our Father[/i]), and then pause on “[i]Adveniat regnum tuum. Fiat voluntas tua, sicut in caelo et in terra.[/i]” (Thy [i]kingdom come. Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.[/i]). Ask them to Whom the Lord’s prayer is addressed, hopefully they can see that it is address to the entire Trinity, and then ask to whom does the Will of God in Heaven, hopefully they can see it is indeed the Heavenly Court.

Even the verse in context suggests that it is “good and acceptable” to pray for ourselves and others. “[i]Solus Christus[/i]” ([i]Christ alone[/i]) is the heresy that is espoused in such a ridged, strict, and absolute interpretation that excludes others. Some people think of this intercession as a sort of system of “[i]pipes[/i]” in how water flows, while this may be a beneficial thought, it may be more fitting to understand that Our Blessed Lord, in His Extended Ministry, allows others to share in His Mediation. In a sense, as if He opened the gates to Heaven that we could approach God, because of His redemption of the Cross.

Our Blessed Lord has been fittingly and properly called the Mediator of God and men, Our Lady has likewise been fittingly and properly called the Mediatress of men and God. To view this verse so strictly that only Christ could approach God for us, then this may mean that we could not approach Christ, for if we believe He is truly God and man, how could we approach He Who IS God to approach God for us? With this thought in mind some of the theologians of the Church have called Our Lady the truest mediatress.

We are subordinate mediators/intercessors in Christ. The Church is sometimes liken to the body, which we know from biology it generally functions in harmony with its self, and that it shares in mutual cooperation, even though it is the head that directs the body. Some have thought by extension of this metaphor, our Lady is the Heart of the Mystical Body, directed by Christ the Head, but nonetheless vital to the life of the Body. [i]Just some thoughts though[/i]...

Edited February 21, 2009 by Mr.CatholicCat