Do You Think Its Fair That The Boston Archdioces..

[Winchester]

[quote name='sistersintigo' date='08 July 2010 - 05:27 PM' timestamp='1278624458' post='2139469']
I remember the refectory at suppertime, in a priory where religious sisters across the spectrum of orders were doing one of those "renewal Programs" -- all older women, still active, who went someplace for several months and lived together retreat style. Ah, you ought to have heard those holy women at table, when Cardinal Law resigned as archbishop. "Power" with a capital P, that was the subject. Good thing he wasn't within a mile of the women, they would have gone after him with the silverware....and probably thrown crockery as well.
[/quote]
I think that would be fine. I would support the victims killing their attackers and beating the hell out of those who didn't stop their attackers. I fully support that.

[MichaelFilo]

I don't know, if priest X is in jail, or even goes to court for child abuse, you bet your best friend that everyone will know, and the bishop will too. Even if not convicted, it will go a long way to keep people on gaurd. This was a violation of the law, which is in strict adherence with Church morality. There should have been no question as to what should be done, unless there was a confessional seal. The priests should turn themselves in and accept the just punishment for their crime, even with the statute of limitations in place.

What would it have done for those hurt? Nothing more than knowing some kind of justice exists. It will not make it better, but no crime against the body, whether violent or sexual can be made good by punishment of the perpetrator, but that is not the point of a criminal justice system. Civil courts attempt to do that, and that money is of value.

As to the parishioners who donate, as with all donations, they are given with a spirit of charity and will be rewarded in Heaven, but as with all financial, spiritual, emotional, and temporal investments, not all of them are worthwhile. Not to say that the Church isn't a good investment in those regards, but as with all of them, they come with a risk of loss of investment.

[CatherineM]

If a priest abused my child, I wouldn't expect the Pope to do a thing about it. I would expect the local special victims unit of the cops to do something. I would expect myself to do something, namely lots of therapy for my child. I don't mind adults abused as kids suing the church, but I want every dollar they are awarded to be matched by their parents. If their parents reported it to the police, who did nothing, then the money should be matched by the local police. One of the current cases to be decided whether the Vatican can be held financially responsible involves an abuse that happened in the 20's, and the priest involved died in the 50's. If you can't make up your mind to sue for 70 years, there is something wrong with the legal system too.

[Anomaly]

[quote name='Winchester' date='08 July 2010 - 08:06 PM' timestamp='1278630385' post='2139506']
Sometimes to protect priests whose own secrets were known to the predators. Your point?[/quote]
I apologize for my poor comprehension. The aboe makes no sense whatsover (to me). What secrets? How does that relate to what I said. Please 'splain.


[quote name='Winchester']I never said it was. But turning them over to the law (especially at the time these abuses were occuring--does very little more. Ask the kid John Couey killed. Oh, you can't because the government isn't any better at dealing with them. Remember, I'm the guy who says execute them.

Are we still pretending this isn't common human behavior?
[/quote]Her name was Jessica... The 'Law' was doing a halfway decent job as far as tracking him and having him report. HOWEVER, family members aided John by letting him stay with them in a trailer park without reporting to the parole board. Then, they lied when asked if they knew where John Couey was. Then they told John who buried Jessica while she was still ALIVE!

Was that tragedy an epic fail of the Law community, or an epic fail of morality on the part of uneducated, unsophisticated, regular joe/janes in a trailer park. Maybe they never were exposed to philosophy, ethics, morality, theology, and spiritual development for 3 years in a seminary.

What is your standard for 'common human behavior'? A behavior that cuts accross all strata of social standing, level of education and most people commit as in 'typical', like paying taxes? Or a behavior that is generally committed by a minority with a relativley low level of gravity, like smoking pot. Or does murder and bank robbery fall under your definition of common human behavior?

Do you think that school teachers and priests commit armed robbery at the same percentage rate as the general population because it's a common human behavior? There's no denying that school teachers and priests have and will commit armed robbery, by the rate of occurence is/would be much lower than the persons living in an urban setting with a lower level of education and standard of living.

[Winchester]

[quote name='Anomaly' date='09 July 2010 - 07:38 AM' timestamp='1278675524' post='2139809']
I apologize for my poor comprehension. The aboe makes no sense whatsover (to me). What secrets? How does that relate to what I said. Please 'splain.
[/quote]
I was merely giving you ammunition in your fight to prove that priests are ordinary humans, which in turn proves that the Church is horrible and there is no God. After all, if preserving your own sexual affairs is more important than outing a pedophile, it's obvious that derails all of Christendom. As usual, you know poo about your subject beyond some AP information.

[quote]
Her name was Jessica... The 'Law' was doing a halfway decent job as far as tracking him and having him report.[/quote]
So releasing him and "monitoring" him worked. She's come back to life, right? I guess in Monitoring 2.0, monitoring will magically keep them from committing the same crime. Is that an implant, or what? How's that accomplished? Because what that state is doing lookis awfully similar to what every one else does.

[quote]HOWEVER, family members aided John by letting him stay with them in a trailer park without reporting to the parole board. Then, they lied when asked if they knew where John Couey was. Then they told John who buried Jessica while she was still ALIVE![/quote]
Oh, so the monitoring didn't work. Gotcha.

[quote]Was that tragedy an epic fail of the Law community, or an epic fail of morality on the part of uneducated, unsophisticated, regular joe/janes in a trailer park. Maybe they never were exposed to philosophy, ethics, morality, theology, and spiritual development for 3 years in a seminary.[/quote]
Both. And Couey's not the only example of a reoffender released by the state because the state is run by nancies who won't do the job right. I took two years of French. Still can't speak it.


[quote]What is your standard for 'common human behavior'? A behavior that cuts accross all strata of social standing, level of education and most people commit as in 'typical', like paying taxes? Or a behavior that is generally committed by a minority with a relativley low level of gravity, like smoking pot. Or does murder and bank robbery fall under your definition of common human behavior?[/quote]
Hiding sexual abuse is common human behavior. You didn't know that? You didn't know that's one of the main pillars of protection on which sexual predators depend?

[quote]Do you think that school teachers and priests commit armed robbery at the same percentage rate as the general population because it's a common human behavior? There's no denying that school teachers and priests have and will commit armed robbery, by the rate of occurence is/would be much lower than the persons living in an urban setting with a lower level of education and standard of living.
[/quote]
Is pedophilia (the disorder) more common amongst poor people? Are you honestly comparing robbery and murder (which may be motivated by survival) to sexual predation, which is motivated by a desire for power over another human being?

I'll repeat this for you: Predators seek good hunting grounds. I'm surprised there aren't more pedophiles in these jobs. You cannot distinguish between a robber, who needn't obtain a job within the places he robs to a pedophile who surrounds himself in his daily life with potential victims and clothes himself in a respectability that presumes trust to give him time alone with his victims?

[sistersintigo]

[quote name='sistersintigo' date='08 July 2010 - 06:27 PM' timestamp='1278624458' post='2139469']
I remember the refectory at suppertime, in a priory where religious sisters across the spectrum of orders were doing one of those "renewal Programs" -- all older women, still active, who went someplace for several months and lived together retreat style. Ah, you ought to have heard those holy women at table, when Cardinal Law resigned as archbishop. "Power" with a capital P, that was the subject. Good thing he wasn't within a mile of the women, they would have gone after him with the silverware....and probably thrown crockery as well.
[/quote]
....just sic the sisters on 'em.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='CatherineM' date='09 July 2010 - 01:10 AM' timestamp='1278648649' post='2139657']
If a priest abused my child, I wouldn't expect the Pope to do a thing about it. I would expect the local special victims unit of the cops to do something. I would expect myself to do something, namely lots of therapy for my child. I don't mind adults abused as kids suing the church, but I want every dollar they are awarded to be matched by their parents. If their parents reported it to the police, who did nothing, then the money should be matched by the local police. One of the current cases to be decided whether the Vatican can be held financially responsible involves an abuse that happened in the 20's, and the priest involved died in the 50's. If you can't make up your mind to sue for 70 years, there is something wrong with the legal system too.
[/quote]
The voice of commonsense and rationality speaks

[Lil Red]

[quote name='CatherineM' date='08 July 2010 - 09:10 PM' timestamp='1278648649' post='2139657']
If a priest abused my child, I wouldn't expect the Pope to do a thing about it. I would expect the local special victims unit of the cops to do something. I would expect myself to do something, namely lots of therapy for my child. I don't mind adults abused as kids suing the church, but I want every dollar they are awarded to be matched by their parents. If their parents reported it to the police, who did nothing, then the money should be matched by the local police. One of the current cases to be decided whether the Vatican can be held financially responsible involves an abuse that happened in the 20's, and the priest involved died in the 50's. If you can't make up your mind to sue for 70 years, there is something wrong with the legal system too.
[/quote]
yes.