havok579257 Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 [quote name='HisChildForever' post='1784059' date='Feb 17 2009, 10:13 PM']The few suggestions I offered before certainly do not fit into "going out of your way." (If that is what you meant.)[/quote] i would constitute only having lunch dates at your house with your gf/bf and having them leave before it gets dark as going completly out of your way. or only coming over certain hours of the day and then leaving even though you want to spend time with your gf/bf is going completly out of your way. or having to do things outside not because you want to but because it accomidates what others think of you is going completly out of your way. to me, this is changing your life for someone else's opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 [quote name='havok579257' post='1784025' date='Feb 17 2009, 10:38 PM']not encourage them but also not go out of your way to try and prove them wrong, like altering your life to try and avoid anyone person thinking what your doing is scandelous.[/quote] We should avoid activities that promote scandal and sin, those "what were you thinking" moments. So if you can't do it it front of your mother, don't do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LouisvilleFan Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 [quote name='havok579257' post='1784105' date='Feb 17 2009, 11:37 PM']i would constitute only having lunch dates at your house with your gf/bf and having them leave before it gets dark as going completly out of your way. or only coming over certain hours of the day and then leaving even though you want to spend time with your gf/bf is going completly out of your way. or having to do things outside not because you want to but because it accomidates what others think of you is going completly out of your way. to me, this is changing your life for someone else's opinion.[/quote] Agree with ya there too... I think this ol' horse is dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 [quote name='havok579257' post='1784105' date='Feb 17 2009, 10:37 PM']i would constitute only having lunch dates at your house with your gf/bf and having them leave before it gets dark as going completly out of your way.[/quote] I never said to leave before dark. [quote]or only coming over certain hours of the day and then leaving even though you want to spend time with your gf/bf is going completly out of your way.[/quote] You do not have to be confined to one party's home in order to spend plenty of time with them. [quote]or having to do things outside not because you want to but because it accomidates what others think of you is going completly out of your way. to me, this is changing your life for someone else's opinion.[/quote] If you want to properly represent your faith and the Church, you should care (to an extent) what other people think. If you call yourself a Catholic and you misrepresent the Church, people [i]will[/i] connect your actions to the Church - people are funny that way. Spending a few hours less at your significant other's apartment is [u]hardly[/u] detrimental. And anyway, who said the road to Heaven was easy? We have to make some sacrifices, and if that means not spending as much time as you would like alone in your boyfriend or girlfriend's house, then so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havok579257 Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1784108' date='Feb 17 2009, 10:37 PM']We should avoid activities that promote scandal and sin, those "what were you thinking" moments. So if you can't do it it front of your mother, don't do it.[/quote] that saying doesn't work. i don't kiss my wife in front of my mom, nor would i. so does that mean i should not kiss my wife? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle_eye222001 Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 [quote name='havok579257' post='1784165' date='Feb 17 2009, 11:17 PM']that saying doesn't work. i don't kiss my wife in front of my mom, nor would i. so does that mean i should not kiss my wife?[/quote] It's just a saying intended to convey and help with moral decisions. Similar to the WWJD. Kissing your wife hardly sounds like a moral decision... ---------------- Listening to: [url="http://www.foxytunes.com/artist/hans+zimmer+%26+james+newton+howard/track/im+not+a+hero+(album+version)"]Hans Zimmer & James Newton Howard - I'm Not A Hero (Album Version)[/url] via [url="http://www.foxytunes.com/signatunes/"]FoxyTunes[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havok579257 Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 [quote name='HisChildForever' post='1784127' date='Feb 17 2009, 10:57 PM']I never said to leave before dark. You do not have to be confined to one party's home in order to spend plenty of time with them. If you want to properly represent your faith and the Church, you should care (to an extent) what other people think. If you call yourself a Catholic and you misrepresent the Church, people [i]will[/i] connect your actions to the Church - people are funny that way. Spending a few hours less at your significant other's apartment is [u]hardly[/u] detrimental. And anyway, who said the road to Heaven was easy? We have to make some sacrifices, and if that means not spending as much time as you would like alone in your boyfriend or girlfriend's house, then so be it.[/quote] 1. you said maybe they should alter their schedules so they do lunch dates instead of eeving dates because people associate evening time with sex time. i care to an extent what people think of catholics as a whole. if some neighbor thinks bad of me because of rumors she has heard or something she assumes to be true just because she assumes it, then no i don't care. people will judge others all the time, its a basic human nature flaw. i try my best not to judge people, but it still happens. it happens to everyone. if i worry about what everyone else thinks of me, then i will worry myself to death. people will hate me and there is nothing i can do about it. should i worry about it? i don;t think so. you can please everyone in this world, so why try. i believe as long as you are not doing anything wrong, then that's all you can do. if people want to assume things about you, then so be it. people will always assume things about you. just like people will always lust after the opposite sex. do your part by dressing modestly, but don't cover yourself head to toe with 8 layers of clothes just to try and stop everyone from lusting after you. also here is another aspect of scandel. me and my wife are having a hard time concieving children. we have been trying for a while. now if people look at us, they may assume that because me and my wife have been married x amount of years and we don't have kids, then we must be choosing that and using a contraceptive. this then creates scandel. should i go tell strangers, or even people who don't need to know, all about our situation. should i have to talk about our situation with our neighbors just so it does not seem scandelous? what if we don't want to talk about our situation with our neighbors? honestly its none of their business and i don't want to talk to them about it. by your standards, i am promoting scandel by making it appear a catholic is not into having children. this is my point exactly, anything and I mean anything can be viewed as scandelous by a person. to try make it so nothing you do is scandelous is next to impposible and only possible if you alter your life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MithLuin Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 I have a friend who worked for the FBI and was sent abroad under cover. The living arrangement provided was a shared apartment with seperate bedrooms. The agent she was living with...was a married man. The man in question did not tell his wife that the agent [i]he[/i] was living with was a woman. There was no indecent/inappropriate behavior. But...she was very uncomfortable with this situation. She did not like knowing so many intimate details about this man (how he took his coffee, what he named the stray dogs, etc). To her mind, that type of relationship is appropriate for a husband and wife, and she was [i]not[/i] his wife. She also did not like being a 'secret' from his wife, because that felt very dishonest. He did not want his wife to worry while he was away, but still. I lived in a house with two other women and two other men after I got out of college, and I did not find that weird at all. We had our own bedrooms/bathrooms, and were actually on separate floors. There was even a rule in the house that no dating between housemates was allowed. So, it seemed very clear cut to me and I didn't mind it at all. I saw it as a community, not a family or marriage or anything. Basically, cohabitation that mirrors marriage, especially between people who are romantically involved, brings all sorts of questions and challenges, even if fornication is not present. At the very least, you are certainly setting yourself up for fornication - and cohabiting would be an occasion of sin in many cases. If you have your own reasons for sharing a house that have nothing to do with 'playing house' and pretending to be married, then under those circumstances it probably wouldn't be sinful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havok579257 Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 [quote name='MithLuin' post='1784212' date='Feb 17 2009, 11:44 PM']I have a friend who worked for the FBI and was sent abroad under cover. The living arrangement provided was a shared apartment with seperate bedrooms. The agent she was living with...was a married man. The man in question did not tell his wife that the agent [i]he[/i] was living with was a woman. There was no indecent/inappropriate behavior. But...she was very uncomfortable with this situation. She did not like knowing so many intimate details about this man (how he took his coffee, what he named the stray dogs, etc). To her mind, that type of relationship is appropriate for a husband and wife, and she was [i]not[/i] his wife. She also did not like being a 'secret' from his wife, because that felt very dishonest. He did not want his wife to worry while he was away, but still. I lived in a house with two other women and two other men after I got out of college, and I did not find that weird at all. We had our own bedrooms/bathrooms, and were actually on separate floors. There was even a rule in the house that no dating between housemates was allowed. So, it seemed very clear cut to me and I didn't mind it at all. I saw it as a community, not a family or marriage or anything. Basically, cohabitation that mirrors marriage, especially between people who are romantically involved, brings all sorts of questions and challenges, even if fornication is not present. At the very least, you are certainly setting yourself up for fornication - and cohabiting would be an occasion of sin in many cases. If you have your own reasons for sharing a house that have nothing to do with 'playing house' and pretending to be married, then under those circumstances it probably wouldn't be sinful.[/quote] yeah i agree, that if the man and women are not a couple, there should be no problem with them living together. like best friends deciding to live together for the time being and they share no attraction with each other and see each other more as a brother/sister. the problem comes when you are dating the person and living together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 [quote name='havok579257' post='1784190' date='Feb 17 2009, 11:29 PM']1. you said maybe they should alter their schedules so they do lunch dates instead of eeving dates because people associate evening time with sex time. i care to an extent what people think of catholics as a whole. if some neighbor thinks bad of me because of rumors she has heard or something she assumes to be true just because she assumes it, then no i don't care. people will judge others all the time, its a basic human nature flaw. i try my best not to judge people, but it still happens. it happens to everyone. if i worry about what everyone else thinks of me, then i will worry myself to death. people will hate me and there is nothing i can do about it. should i worry about it? i don;t think so. you can please everyone in this world, so why try. i believe as long as you are not doing anything wrong, then that's all you can do. if people want to assume things about you, then so be it. people will always assume things about you. just like people will always lust after the opposite sex. do your part by dressing modestly, but don't cover yourself head to toe with 8 layers of clothes just to try and stop everyone from lusting after you. also here is another aspect of scandel. me and my wife are having a hard time concieving children. we have been trying for a while. now if people look at us, they may assume that because me and my wife have been married x amount of years and we don't have kids, then we must be choosing that and using a contraceptive. this then creates scandel. should i go tell strangers, or even people who don't need to know, all about our situation. should i have to talk about our situation with our neighbors just so it does not seem scandelous? what if we don't want to talk about our situation with our neighbors? honestly its none of their business and i don't want to talk to them about it. by your standards, i am promoting scandel by making it appear a catholic is not into having children. this is my point exactly, anything and I mean anything can be viewed as scandelous by a person. to try make it so nothing you do is scandelous is next to impposible and only possible if you alter your life.[/quote] Please calm down. I already told you that people [b]will[/b] talk, just as you said, so we agree on this. My argument is that we should not give them [b]more[/b] to talk about. People judge us for no reason. However, we should not give them reason to judge us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havok579257 Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 [quote name='HisChildForever' post='1784488' date='Feb 18 2009, 12:51 PM']Please calm down. I already told you that people [b]will[/b] talk, just as you said, so we agree on this. My argument is that we should not give them [b]more[/b] to talk about. People judge us for no reason. However, we should not give them reason to judge us.[/quote] i apoligize if i came off rude, that was not my intention. i am just a natural debating type person and when i debate, i can sometimes get caught up in things, so sorry if i came off rude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tionif Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 (edited) [quote name='mcdeltatjg' post='1782347' date='Feb 16 2009, 09:29 AM']Hello y'all! I was wondering about something. I know fornication is a sin and I know that cohabitation is discouraged. But I was wondering: First of all, is cohabitation a sin in-and-of itself? Or is it just fornication? I know many Catholics (even very observant ones) who live with platonic roommates of the opposite sex - in separate bedrooms of course. Some of them even live in Catholic communities with people of the opposite sex (something that seems to be quite popular here in Montreal). So what if some roommates happen to fall in love? It seems to be kind of odd to expect one of them to move out because of this... Also, why can't a boyfriend and girlfriend move in together to see how they get along while living together? Many marital problems are due to domestic issues... Why not allow couples to live together to weed out any potential issues before they get married? I saw in another thread that cohabitation (even in separate bedrooms and without fornication) would be a grave matter (one of the requirements for mortal sin) because it is an occasion to sin and may lead to scandal, but I'm not sure about either count. They had this survey in the newspaper and it said that couples who live together (whether married or not) actually have LESS sex than couples who don't. Perhaps they were implying that nothing kills the romance like living under the same roof! As for scandal, I don't think it would cause too much scandal if everyone knows they commit to being chaste, have separate rooms and maybe have a third Catholic roommate who can attest that everything is kosher. Granted, no one can be sure that they're not fornicating if they live together, but then again, no one can be sure they're not fornicating if they're NOT living together... What do y'all think?[/quote] Why does marriage have to have a formal ceremony at all. If two room mates fall in love with each other, go to the JOP at city hall, get legalized, and then prepare for a 'more formal' ceremony to pronounce the celebration, I think it would be okay. Everything is considered lawful and legal, and I can't see God frowning on people who do that. After all - [b]1 Corinthians 7:9 But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.[/b] Meaning, if they are in love, and they really want to be with each other physically and emotionally, than the quickest way to marry as possible should be considered. Edited February 21, 2009 by tionif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 how many accounts do you have ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 [quote name='Delivery Boy' post='1787140' date='Feb 21 2009, 01:11 AM']how many accounts do you have ??[/quote] ...who is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 tionif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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