The Finer Points On Cohabitation

[Guest mcdeltatjg]

Hello y'all!

I was wondering about something. I know fornication is a sin and I know that cohabitation is discouraged. But I was wondering:

First of all, is cohabitation a sin in-and-of itself? Or is it just fornication?

I know many Catholics (even very observant ones) who live with platonic roommates of the opposite sex - in separate bedrooms of course. Some of them even live in Catholic communities with people of the opposite sex (something that seems to be quite popular here in Montreal).

So what if some roommates happen to fall in love? It seems to be kind of odd to expect one of them to move out because of this...

Also, why can't a boyfriend and girlfriend move in together to see how they get along while living together? Many marital problems are due to domestic issues... Why not allow couples to live together to weed out any potential issues before they get married?

I saw in another thread that cohabitation (even in separate bedrooms and without fornication) would be a grave matter (one of the requirements for mortal sin) because it is an occasion to sin and may lead to scandal, but I'm not sure about either count.

They had this survey in the newspaper and it said that couples who live together (whether married or not) actually have LESS sex than couples who don't. Perhaps they were implying that nothing kills the romance like living under the same roof!

As for scandal, I don't think it would cause too much scandal if everyone knows they commit to being chaste, have separate rooms and maybe have a third Catholic roommate who can attest that everything is kosher. Granted, no one can be sure that they're not fornicating if they live together, but then again, no one can be sure they're not fornicating if they're NOT living together...

What do y'all think?

[HisChildForever]

Even chaste Catholic couples are prone to temptations. I can only imagine what sort of temptations spring up if that couple is living together. Furthermore, even if the couple is chaste, "outsiders" so to speak (i.e. neighbors) may just assume "Oh, those two young people down the hall? Nope, not married...but you know kids these days!" which causes scandal, [b]especially[/b] if the couple says they are Catholics. ("Unmarried Catholics can now live together without being *ahem* married?")

[cmotherofpirl]

Anytime you live together you start to take on married roles whether you like or not. Trouble is you are not married, you have made no real committment, and its very hard to get out. Like it or not people assume you are having sex.

[HisChildForever]

I [i]think[/i] this is considered "living in open violation of chastity" but don't quote me.

[CatherineM]

Part of it has to do with appearances. My 86 year old mother is living in this type of relationship, but it is more about finances and companionship. We don't automatically assume that our elderly parents are having sex, at least I really don't want to go there. The assumption for those who are younger, is the opposite. I had a roommate for 15 years, and since we weren't related, everyone assumed we were gay rather than just trying to save money and help each other out. We got to the point where we had to tell people we were sisters to keep people from assuming nasty things.

I took one vacation with a boyfriend, and we had separate rooms with a shared living space, and it was hard. We were only there a little over a week, and it led to some trouble, nothing a right upper cut couldn't fix, but it shouldn't have been necessary. If you are sure you want to try this, you have to make some hard boundaries, and stick to them. At a basic, you would have to have a dress code for common areas.

[Aloysius]

statistically, those who cohabitate before marriage are hugely more likely to divorce. one should avoid doing anything which blurs the distinction between unmarried and married life; life should be markedly different for a couple after marriage than it was before marriage. the more you do things before marriage that ought to be left until after marriage (even if those things are not necessarily sinful in and of themselves), the less special marriage itself becomes. for those who cohabitate and are not chaste before marriage, the wedding is just a formality; even if they just cohabitate it becomes seemingly a formality. the more blurred the line between unmarried and married, the more likely the marriage is to fail.

[havok579257]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1782489' date='Feb 16 2009, 01:55 PM']statistically, those who cohabitate before marriage are hugely more likely to divorce. one should avoid doing anything which blurs the distinction between unmarried and married life; life should be markedly different for a couple after marriage than it was before marriage. the more you do things before marriage that ought to be left until after marriage (even if those things are not necessarily sinful in and of themselves), the less special marriage itself becomes. for those who cohabitate and are not chaste before marriage, the wedding is just a formality; even if they just cohabitate it becomes seemingly a formality. the more blurred the line between unmarried and married, the more likely the marriage is to fail.[/quote]


not saying i don't believe you but i would like to see these statistics.

[Lil Red]

+J.M.J.+
i'm not sure that it would be a mortal sin, but at least a venial sin since you could be causing scandal to others.

[Aloysius]

[quote]Cohabitation Data:
There is a higher risk, 40 to 85%, of divorce between couples cohabiting before marriage than couples waiting until after marriage to share a home together.[/quote]
[url="http://www.divorcereform.org/cor.html#anchor2348930\\\""]http://www.divorcereform.org/cor.html#anchor2348930[/url]


I\\\'ve seen statistics like this in many places; it is actually a generally accepted statistical fact.. I think there\\\'s some obscure French and German counter-examples; but in the US and on average worldwide, it\\\'s a statistical coorelation.

[havok579257]

i have a problem with the whole scandel aspect of it, because anything you do with the opposite sex can be considered scandel to someone. i mean if a single man has his girlfriend come over every night and even if she leaves that evening, many people will assume they are having sex since they are that age and they are alone in the apartment/house. should couples then never have alone time because someone might view it as scandelous. i mean two male rommates who profess being catholic could be viewed as scandoulus if they are never seen with girlfriends because neighbors could assume they are gay and catholic. scandel can be anything really, anything anyone just assumes, so should we do nothing to try an avoid all scandel?

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='mcdeltatjg' post='1782347' date='Feb 16 2009, 09:29 AM']First of all, is cohabitation a sin in-and-of itself? Or is it just fornication?[/quote]

It's hard to say that cohabitating is definitely sinful. There could be some unusual circumstances in which couples find themselves living together even when they would rather not. Some people work opposite schedules, so living together may hardly present occasions for sin. But for most people, the occasion for sin and the scandal that can be caused by this living situation are enough to avoid it. Plus, it is healthier for everyone in the long run. You avoid the drama that comes with living together, which will only complicate a relationship that can be ended by either person simply deciding they want out. Can you give any good reason why couples should seek out more trouble for themselves than they already need to handle?

[quote name='mcdeltatjg' post='1782347' date='Feb 16 2009, 09:29 AM']I know many Catholics (even very observant ones) who live with platonic roommates of the opposite sex - in separate bedrooms of course. Some of them even live in Catholic communities with people of the opposite sex (something that seems to be quite popular here in Montreal).[/quote]

Interesting... I've read that some early Christians did this too, but not without the things happening that one would expect to happen. The only way that kind of arrangement can work is with good rules that are respected by everyone.

[quote name='mcdeltatjg' post='1782347' date='Feb 16 2009, 09:29 AM']So what if some roommates happen to fall in love? It seems to be kind of odd to expect one of them to move out because of this...[/quote]

Which implies a lack of self-control and discipline. The very word "fall" is contradictory to everything Christ commands us about living according to the Gospel. I know, in a sense, we can fall in love by encountering beauty in the world or in the opposite sex that pulls us out of ourselves to selflessly seek the good of another. If so, then seek the good of the one you love by defending your mutual chastity, standing firmly in faith, and relying on God's grace. "Oops, I did it again" is not the motto of a saint, though maybe a future saint after repentance.

[quote name='mcdeltatjg' post='1782347' date='Feb 16 2009, 09:29 AM']Also, why can't a boyfriend and girlfriend move in together to see how they get along while living together? Many marital problems are due to domestic issues... Why not allow couples to live together to weed out any potential issues before they get married?[/quote]

They can. People do it all the time.

They shouldn't because dating/courtship and engagement serve the purpose of learning how you fit together as a couple. Most martial problems are actually caused by finances. You think it's any accident that Jesus often preached against divorce and the love of money? When we lay down our lives for our friends, we don't fall into those traps of selfishness and jealousy. No need to live together before getting married... seek after God first.

[quote name='mcdeltatjg' post='1782347' date='Feb 16 2009, 09:29 AM']I saw in another thread that cohabitation (even in separate bedrooms and without fornication) would be a grave matter (one of the requirements for mortal sin) because it is an occasion to sin and may lead to scandal, but I'm not sure about either count.[/quote]

The scandal part my depend on what kind of friends you have, but the occasion to sin part is a no brainer. People like to have sex. God made us that way. Living against our design doesn't work.

[quote name='mcdeltatjg' post='1782347' date='Feb 16 2009, 09:29 AM']As for scandal, I don't think it would cause too much scandal if everyone knows they commit to being chaste, have separate rooms and maybe have a third Catholic roommate who can attest that everything is kosher. Granted, no one can be sure that they're not fornicating if they live together, but then again, no one can be sure they're not fornicating if they're NOT living together...[/quote]

Well, you can never be sure. The issue isn't obeying rules and appearing to be good people to everyone else. Being Catholic means loving God with all our heart, mind, soul, and strength. You can't half-ass that or fake it. I know plenty of couples who lived apart and still had premarital sex. They don't recommend it.

[Jesus_lol]

myself, i dont think scandal is any sort of sin. people believe all sorts of cr[i][/i]ap about me, for stupider reasons. (such as, because of where i live i am automatically a total stoner, because i havent dated i must be gay, etc) so i am inclined to say, screw what they think. whether or not it would be a sinning relationship would be between me, whoever i would be living with and God.

[CatherineM]

As the economy gets worse, more and more people will be bunking together just to save money. The idea of what comprises scandal may change some too.

[Tinkerlina]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' post='1782870' date='Feb 16 2009, 08:14 PM']myself, i dont think scandal is any sort of sin. people believe all sorts of cr[i][/i]ap about me, for stupider reasons. (such as, because of where i live i am automatically a total stoner, because i havent dated i must be gay, etc) so i am inclined to say, screw what they think. whether or not it would be a sinning relationship would be between me, whoever i would be living with and God.[/quote]

Yeah I agree with that. People are going to assume things based on any number of things. People tend to assume I'm some crazy partier because I often wear bright makeup and funky hair colors but going to see a movie and having coffee at the bookstore after is pretty much as crazy as I get...-Katie

[Aloysius]

it's not just about the scandal it causes nor just about the near occasion of sin (though those are both important things to consider); cohabitation in and of itself does damage to the future marriage because it blurs the boundaries between the unmarried state and the married state.

chaste unmarried relationships are not just about not having sex until you're married and then you're good; the state of the relationship before the marriage ought to be markedly different than the state of the relationship after the marriage. living together before marriage blurs the boundaries terribly.

it's not just sex that should be reserved for marriage in a relationship; it's a lot of things... an entire mindset about your partner that you should wait until marriage to have, an entire lifestyle with that person that you should wait until marriage to have. dating is not play-marriage, dating is not test-marriage... living together is for marriage; for that matter, a lot of things that many people do in relationships is FOR marriage. doing all of these things before marriage does harm to your future marriage.