mortify Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 [quote name='Apotheoun' post='1787864' date='Feb 22 2009, 02:03 AM']I understand the difference, but if my memory serves me, the decrees that you have been defending do not permit you to question the governing actions of the pope, who happens to be your patriarch.[/quote] I'm not thwarting the Pope's authority, but in my opinion the best choices weren't made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 (edited) [quote name='mortify' post='1787868' date='Feb 21 2009, 11:10 PM']I'm not thwarting the Pope's authority, but in my opinion the best choices weren't made.[/quote] The decree doesn't seem to mention an exemption for not "thwarthing" the pope's governing authority. If my memory serves me, it mentions giving true obedience to his governing actions. In fact, the true obedience that is mention is placed in relation to faith, morals, and governance together. Edited February 22, 2009 by Apotheoun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted February 22, 2009 Author Share Posted February 22, 2009 What decree are you talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Resurrexi' post='1787871' date='Feb 21 2009, 11:14 PM']What decree are you talking about?[/quote] Resurrexi, Have you been paying attention to the conversation? Which decrees has Mortify been defending over the course of the last twenty or more posts? Edited February 22, 2009 by Apotheoun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted February 22, 2009 Author Share Posted February 22, 2009 Are you talking about Pastor Aeternus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 [quote name='Resurrexi' post='1787874' date='Feb 21 2009, 11:16 PM']Are you talking about Pastor Aeternus?[/quote] That is the decree that Mortify has been defending. Now I am glad that that issue is resolved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted February 22, 2009 Author Share Posted February 22, 2009 I would hope any Catholic would defend it, since it is without a doubt among most important decrees ever promulgated by the Magisterium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 [quote name='Resurrexi' post='1787877' date='Feb 21 2009, 11:20 PM']I would hope any Catholic would defend it, since it is without a doubt among most important decrees ever promulgated by the Magisterium.[/quote] There is another difference between the two of us, because I hold that the dogmatic decrees in defense of the Trinity and the Incarnation are the most important things ever issued by the Church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortify Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 [quote name='Apotheoun' post='1787869' date='Feb 22 2009, 02:13 AM']The decree doesn't seem to mention an exemption for not "thwarthing" the pope's governing authority. If my memory serves me, it mentions giving true obedience to his governing actions. In fact, the true obedience that is mention is placed in relation to faith, morals, and governance together.[/quote] I can obey the Pope in governance and still question the prudence of his actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted February 22, 2009 Author Share Posted February 22, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 [quote name='mortify' post='1787882' date='Feb 21 2009, 11:28 PM']I can obey the Pope in governance and still question the prudence of his actions.[/quote] Where does it say that in the decree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted February 22, 2009 Author Share Posted February 22, 2009 (edited) It's one of those logic things... you know how we in the west are all about Aristotelian logic and syllogisms... (I was half kidding by this, BTW, especially since Pastor Aeternus applies to the whole Church and not just to the West and since Eastern bishops were at Vatican I) Edited February 22, 2009 by Resurrexi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortify Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 [quote name='Apotheoun' post='1787884' date='Feb 22 2009, 02:29 AM']Where does it say that in the decree?[/quote] It's implied by virtue of governance not falling under infallibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Resurrexi' post='1787886' date='Feb 21 2009, 11:31 PM']It's one of those logic things... you know how we in the west are all about Aristotelian logic and syllogisms...[/quote] So where is this distinction made in the decree itself? I just re-read the decree and I do not see anything about questioning the prudence of the pope's governing actions, or even about having mental reservations concerning them. Edited February 22, 2009 by Apotheoun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted February 22, 2009 Author Share Posted February 22, 2009 (edited) It never forbids our questioning of the prudence of the Pope's judgments. Edited February 22, 2009 by Resurrexi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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