Selah Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 I just wish I could find out where the Ark is...and the Holy Grail too, of course. We can all go on a quest to find it! Onward, my friends! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 the one in Valencia is the best candidate; the red stone agate cup has been dated to either the 2nd or 1st century and it originated in a workshop in either Egypt, Syria, or Palestine [url="http://ncrcafe.org/node/219"]http://ncrcafe.org/node/219[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 [quote name='Selah' post='1781351' date='Feb 15 2009, 07:27 AM']I just wish I could find out where the Ark is...and the Holy Grail too, of course. We can all go on a quest to find it! Onward, my friends![/quote] The Ark is in an Ethiopian Orthodox monastery of Our Lady of Mount Zion in Ethiopia. The story of how it got there is extremely plausible, but of course the monks really have no interest in opening it up to scientific study. If it were in a Roman Church we'd have likely let someone study it by now, but I respect their reverence for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selah Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 That's very interesting. Perhaps it is best to keep it there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 they're not about to give it up anyway, lol. I believe one of the monks devotes his entire life solely to the caretaking of the ark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 If it got buried in Jerusalem, my guess would be under the temple mount. It is one of the few places that people aren't allowed to dig. If it had been buried with one of the Crusaders in the Church of the Holy Sepulcher, then the Greeks have it since they destroyed those tombs in the early 1800's. I agree that the Ark is in Ethiopia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 [quote name='CatherineM' post='1781378' date='Feb 15 2009, 10:47 AM']If it got buried in Jerusalem, my guess would be under the temple mount. It is one of the few places that people aren't allowed to dig. If it had been buried with one of the Crusaders in the Church of the Holy Sepulcher, then the Greeks have it since they destroyed those tombs in the early 1800's. I agree that the Ark is in Ethiopia.[/quote] I doubt if we will ever know, since the only one who has ever seen it is its guardian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rachael Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 [quote name='tinytherese' post='1781325' date='Feb 15 2009, 03:08 AM']Wow, sometime I gotta sit down and watch all of Monty Python and the Holy Grail.[/quote] Pie Jesu Domine, dona eis requiem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortify Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 [quote name='kafka' post='1781211' date='Feb 15 2009, 01:24 AM']I'm curious to know why you think it is at Petra, I've never heard of that theory.[/quote] In one of hte Indianna Jones movies the Chalice is in Petra... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LouisvilleFan Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 The SaintCast just covered the story the Holy Grail in Valencia in two episodes in November. You can listen to them online... they're #108 and 109 from [url="http://web.mac.com/pcamarata/SaintCast/Latest_Podcasts/Archive.html"]this link[/url]. I see there's also a book written by Janice Bennett titled "[url="http://www.amazon.com/dp/1586170759?tag=saintcast-20&camp=14573&creative=327641&linkCode=as1&creativeASIN=1586170759&adid=0N2D3GM96TF58J8ZK8Q3&"]St. Laurence and the Holy Grail[/url]." Whether it's true or not, it is an interesting story and with relatively substantial evidence at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 the chalice in Valencia is such an amazing candidate because of the verification from tests that it's from 2nd or 1st century Palestine, Syria, or Egypt... if it's 1st century, then being made in any of those 3 places makes it extremely possible that it's authentic and in any event raises big questions as to why a cup from one of those places (from either 2nd or 1st century) made it to Valencia, Spain, if it was not believed to be authentic. ie, it's extremely unlikely it was a straight-up forgery... because they wouldnt hvae gone through the trouble to get something that old and from that location... whoever got it to Valencia almost assuredly believed it to be authentic the story of St. Lawrence is hugely possible; there is no reason to doubt that Peter kept that chalice and thus it ended up in Rome, and seeing as there was so much persecution in Rome all the time, it would make perfect sense that it would be sent away for protection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kafka Posted February 15, 2009 Author Share Posted February 15, 2009 (edited) [quote name='mortify' post='1781411' date='Feb 15 2009, 10:48 AM']In one of hte Indianna Jones movies the Chalice is in Petra...[/quote] oh I didnt catch the joke I believe the Ark of the Covenant is buried in Jerusalem. I think I've read or discussed with some people that it was last mentioned of or referred to by Jeremiah, right before the Babylonian Captivity. I believe I've read in some private revelation that Enoch and Elias will find the Ark shortly before Christ Returns. This makes sense to me. Enoch and Elias are very holy and have a special task to preach to the nations during the second half of Antichrist's reign. So them finding the Ark would confirm their preaching and would be a great comfort to the Faithful under persecution. From Blessed Anne Catherine Emmerich's visions I believe the Grail is lost somewhere in Jerusalem. Obviously she was holy and I find her private revelations authentic. The stunning details she provides about Christ and Mary's lives and the wisdom in her explanations are enough to convince me. Here is a quote taken from her work "The Dolorous Passion" about the Grail: "The chalice which the Apostles brought from Veronica's house was wonderful and mysterious in its appearance. It had been kept a long time in the Temple among other precious objects of great antiquity, the use and origin of which had been forgotten. The same has been in some degree the case in the Christian Church, where many consecrated jewels have been forgotten and fallen into disuse with time. Ancient vases and jewels, buried beneath the Temple, had often been dug up, sold, or reset. Thus it was that, by God's permission, this holy vessel, which none had ever been able to melt down on account of its being made of some unknown material, and which had been found by the priests in the treasury of the Temple among other objects no longer made use of, had been sold to some antiquaries. It was bought by Seraphia, was several times made use of by Jesus in the celebration of festivals, and, from the day of the Last Supper, became the exclusive property of the holy Christian community. This vessel was not always the same as when used by our Lord at his Last Supper, and perhaps it was upon that occasion that the various pieces which composed it were first put together. The great chalice stood upon a plate, out of which a species of tablet could also be drawn, and around it there were six little glasses. The great chalice contained another smaller vase; above it there was a small plate, and then came a round cover. A spoon was inserted in the foot of the chalice, and could be easily drawn out for use. All these different vessels were covered with fine linen, and, if I am not mistaken, were wrapped up in a case made of leather. The great chalice was composed of the cup and of the foot, which last must have been joined on to it at a later period, for it was of a different material. The cup was pear-shaped, massive, dark-coloured, and highly polished, with gold ornaments, and two small handles by which it could be lifted. The foot was of virgin gold, elaborately worked, ornamented with a serpent and a small bunch of grapes, and enriched with precious stones. The chalice was left in the Church of Jerusalem, in the hands of St James the Less; and I see that it is still preserved in that town---it will reappear someday, in the same manner as before. Other Churches took the little cups which surrounded it; one was taken to Antioch, and another to Ephesus. They belonged to the patriarchs, who drank some mysterious beverage out of them when they received or gave a Benediction, as I have seen many times. The great chalice had formerly been in the possession of Abraham; Melchisedech brought it with him from the land of Semiramis to the land of Canaan, when he was beginning to found some settlements on the spot where Jerusalem was afterwards built; he made use of it then for offering sacrifice, when he offered bread and wine in the presence of Abraham, and he left it in the possession of that holy patriarch. This same chalice had also been preserved in Noah's Ark." I am not great at visual imagination of objects, yet the one described above by Blessed Anne does not seem to match the picture or description of the one in Valencia. By the time Christ used the one described by Blessed Anne, it was already an elaborate, and one could say a bit of a mysterious creation, since she claims that it was not able to be melted down since part of it is made of "some unknown material." Then she goes on to admit (she lived in the early 1800s) that it was left in the Church of Jerusalem and "and I see that it is still preserved in that town---. . . " She then goes on to say, "it will reappear someday, in the same manner as before." Meaning that it will be one day be found by someone in Jerusalem, and its origin and use being forgetten will be sold to an antique dealer, and eventually fall back into the hand of Faithful disciples of Christ. I speculate this will occur towards the end of the Tribulation, sometime before Christ Returns, and so will be ready and in the safe hands of the Faithful by the time Christ Returns. This speculation of mine based on a couple of her ideas seems to make sense and take into account Providence. I also found the history of the chalice mentioned by her to be very interesting. It was in Noah's Ark, it was used by Melchisedek in Salem (ancient Jerusalem), handed on to Abraham, etc. It seems bound up with the history of Jerusalem itself, which is Christ's City, and so it makes sense to me that it would remain there. It is also makes sense that the Grail would remain hidden from the Faithful since men have a propensity toward's idolatry. If this chalice were seen and known for sure to be the one Christ used, people would probably place too much emphasis on the object, and not the Divine user of the object. Those are my thoughts for now. Edited February 15, 2009 by kafka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 [quote name='Aloysius' post='1781553' date='Feb 15 2009, 03:59 PM']the chalice in Valencia is such an amazing candidate because of the verification from tests that it's from 2nd or 1st century Palestine, Syria, or Egypt... if it's 1st century, then being made in any of those 3 places makes it extremely possible that it's authentic and in any event raises big questions as to why a cup from one of those places (from either 2nd or 1st century) made it to Valencia, Spain, if it was not believed to be authentic. ie, it's extremely unlikely it was a straight-up forgery... because they wouldnt hvae gone through the trouble to get something that old and from that location... whoever got it to Valencia almost assuredly believed it to be authentic the story of St. Lawrence is hugely possible; there is no reason to doubt that Peter kept that chalice and thus it ended up in Rome, and seeing as there was so much persecution in Rome all the time, it would make perfect sense that it would be sent away for protection.[/quote] Jesus celebrated Mass after his ressurrection too, so there could be more than one cup in existance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 I had never thought of that; in any event, the chalice of Valencia being one used by Our Lord is good enough to call it "a" Holy Grail if not "the" Holy Grail. I tend to accept the story which attributes it as "the" Holy Grail, however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 [quote name='tinytherese' post='1781325' date='Feb 15 2009, 02:08 AM']Wow, sometime I gotta sit down and watch all of Monty Python and the Holy Grail.[/quote] Sometime I gotta??? Or you could read the[url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=43578&hl="] greatest thread [/url]ever in Phatmass history [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=43578&hl="]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?s...c=43578&hl=[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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