How Young Is Too Young For The Death Penalty?

[VoTeckam]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1771379' date='Feb 3 2009, 05:51 PM']Forgiveness and justice are two different things. You can be forgiven but still have to serve your sentence. If you eventually are going to be released or not getting the death penalty - education, therapy, religious ministry and work programs are excellent programs.[/quote]

The forgiveness I was suggesting was to come from us... not the justice system. Of course a murder is expected to serve their sentence in prison, but even if that sentence is a life sentence why should they not have access to the things I listed above? Like a previous poster mentioned, without any of those things the prisioner is left with no hope (and a lack of hope and love is the very essence of evil) and the liklihood of violence in prision becomes greater.

[Veridicus]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1771353' date='Feb 3 2009, 04:26 PM']What would you suggest, may I ask? Solitary confinement? How is that any more humane than the death penalty?[/quote]

Anything is more humane than the death penalty. Ending someone's life deprives them of the opportunity to experience the transforming grace of God's love. Perhaps in solitary that individual finally has the quiet needed to hear God's voice in his heart.

[Resurrexi]

My input: why on earth would anyone rape a 72 year old woman? Seriously...

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Veridicus' post='1771389' date='Feb 3 2009, 06:11 PM']Anything is more humane than the death penalty. Ending someone's life deprives them of the opportunity to experience the transforming grace of God's love. Perhaps in solitary that individual finally has the quiet needed to hear God's voice in his heart.[/quote]
If an upcoming death penalty date doesn't give you a change of heart, nothing will.

[rkwright]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1771483' date='Feb 3 2009, 06:51 PM']If an upcoming death penalty date doesn't give you a change of heart, nothing will.[/quote]

I disagree. An 18 yr old may still be very stubborn no matter what the sentence.

Maybe someone in 40s might come around and have a change of heart after years of dwelling on it and maturing.

Either way, we'll never know if they would have had a change of heart if they're dead.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='rkwright' post='1771484' date='Feb 3 2009, 07:54 PM']I disagree. An 18 yr old may still be very stubborn no matter what the sentence.

Maybe someone in 40s might come around and have a change of heart after years of dwelling on it and maturing.

Either way, we'll never know if they would have had a change of heart if they're dead.[/quote]
Its not our business, a change of heart is between the prisoner and God.

[rkwright]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1771485' date='Feb 3 2009, 07:02 PM']Its not our business, a change of heart is between the prisoner and God.[/quote]

Sure, but killing them doesn't seem to help things.

[CatherineM]

[quote name='Resurrexi' post='1771479' date='Feb 3 2009, 05:42 PM']My input: why on earth would anyone rape a 72 year old woman? Seriously...[/quote]

Rape isn't a crime about sex/sex appeal. It is a crime of control and violence.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='VoTeckam' post='1771386' date='Feb 3 2009, 05:04 PM']Like a previous poster mentioned, without any of those things the prisioner is left with no hope (and a lack of hope and love is the very essence of evil) and the liklihood of violence in prision becomes greater.[/quote]

That is not exactly the path I was taking with those statements. My essential point was that a murderer facing life in prison [without parole] is not going to be interested in good behavior because he or she will not be rewarded for this good behavior. A lot of the good behavior inmates exhibit is for selfish reasons - take the example I used regarding community service. Do the majority of the inmates truly want to give back to the community? The answer is typically no, they just want a change of pace and a chance to be outside in the world. Furthermore, the better behaved an inmate is, the more likely they will be given parole (if that is an option for them). But the murderer does not have the option of parole and therefore would not even bother to fake good behavior. This puts other inmates, as well as the correctional staff and visitors, at risk. It is not a matter of hope and forgiveness.

[quote name='Veridicus' post='1771389' date='Feb 3 2009, 05:11 PM']Anything is more humane than the death penalty. Ending someone's life deprives them of the opportunity to experience the transforming grace of God's love. Perhaps in solitary that individual finally has the quiet needed to hear God's voice in his heart.[/quote]

The death penalty is not about power, nor is it completely about justice (although this is a good chunk of it). The purpose of the death penalty is to protect society from dangerous criminals.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1771492' date='Feb 3 2009, 07:15 PM']Rape isn't a crime about sex/sex appeal. It is a crime of control and violence.[/quote]

Sadly, some will disagree with you on this. Re: miniskirt debate.

[KnightofChrist]

And sadly [u]some[/u] 'men' so desperate and driven by lust for sex they will rape a woman to get it.

[rkwright]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1771590' date='Feb 3 2009, 10:43 PM']That is not exactly the path I was taking with those statements. My essential point was that a murderer facing life in prison [without parole] is not going to be interested in good behavior because he or she will not be rewarded for this good behavior. A lot of the good behavior inmates exhibit is for selfish reasons - take the example I used regarding community service. Do the majority of the inmates truly want to give back to the community? The answer is typically no, they just want a change of pace and a chance to be outside in the world. Furthermore, the better behaved an inmate is, the more likely they will be given parole (if that is an option for them). But the murderer does not have the option of parole and therefore would not even bother to fake good behavior. This puts other inmates, as well as the correctional staff and visitors, at risk. It is not a matter of hope and forgiveness.



The death penalty is not about power, nor is it completely about justice (although this is a good chunk of it). The purpose of the death penalty is to protect society from dangerous criminals.[/quote]

Put 'em in solitary for 23 hours a day in Florence CO.

[Tinkerlina]

[quote name='Lil Red' post='1771246' date='Feb 3 2009, 03:59 PM']+J.M.J.+
[url="http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/03/us/03bar.html?_r=1&partner=permalink&exprod=permalink"]the NY Times[/url] asks if it is 'cruel and unusual' punishment to send a 13 year old boy to death row for raping a 72-year old woman twice at knifepoint.

[url="http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/sptimes/access/50578575.html?FMT=FT&dids=50578575:50578575&FMTS=ABS:FT&type=current&date=Dec+14%2C+1989&author=ap&pub=St.+Petersburg+Times&desc=Teen+gets+life+terms+for+raping+woman"]this was the original article in 1989.[/url][/quote]

Personally, I'm completely against the Death Penalty at any age, but I think that, depraved as this boy is, his death does not accomplish anything but denying him a chance at a life that, at 13, he has so much time to (possibly) reform. Who knows what plans God has for him? I am in no way defending what he did, it sickens me, but I'd like to see him get a chance at life nonetheless. -Katie

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1771611' date='Feb 3 2009, 10:58 PM']And sadly [u]some[/u] 'men' so desperate and driven by lust for sex they will rape a woman to get it.[/quote]

Source.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1771611' date='Feb 3 2009, 11:58 PM']And sadly [u]some[/u] 'men' so desperate and driven by lust for sex they will rape a woman to get it.[/quote]
When you objectify women and only see them as means to an end, rape is the result. It is not sex, its power and control.