cmotherofpirl Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 [quote name='alixr' post='1773862' date='Feb 6 2009, 01:08 PM']I find it naive for anyone to say that no one ever regretted living, despite their miseries. Surely people who commit suicide have regretted living. Not only that, but a child who suffers and is abused/neglected during childhood has the potential for growing up with mental instabilities which might end up causing them to inflict harm on others later on in life. The cycle of abuse continues. That life is always worth living is an opinion. Of course you would be charged with murder if you killed homeless people; it is their decision to end or not end their lives. Which brings a gray area to the abortion issue because a baby cannot ask to be born or not to be born. But I find it irresponsible to bring one into the world that you are unwilling/unable to care for. Other people may be able to care for the child, but then again they may not. You risk making the child an even bigger victim by being physically/emotionally abandoned in life.[/quote] It can be irresponsibile to get pregnant, it is murder to kill your child because of the circumstances in your life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicansoul Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 [quote name='alixr' post='1773879' date='Feb 6 2009, 12:36 PM']When I use the term unwanted, I mean unwanted by the parents having it. Not everyone is unselfish enough to give their child up for adoption . . . .[/quote] either the parents want it or they don't....if they decide not to give the baby up for adoption, then that usually means, they want to keep the child...and thus, the child is not [i]unwanted[/i]... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirklawd Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 attachment doesnt mean anything at all to this debate. siamese twins do not have the right to kill eachother. Murder of the innocent is always wrong, it trumps everything. Tell them to come up with a better excuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotusTuusMaria Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 [quote name='alixr' post='1773878' date='Feb 6 2009, 01:34 PM']I actually do think it was quite possibly irresponsible of my parents to give me life; the point is that a child who comes into the world already unwanted by its parents, who are also too selfish to give the child up for adoption and who are unable to provide quality care for the child, that child is set up to suffer. I just don't believe it is better to bring the child into an environment that will probably turn him into a person with psychological problems that may even develop into a tendency to cause deliberate suffering in others as a result of the lack of empathy and love the child got growing up. I believe it is far better to abort the child before it is developped enough to feel anything. Once the child is here, not part of the woman's body anymore, then no, there should be no "mercy killings." And I won't even go into the existentialism of whether or not we should mercy kill everyone so no one would exist, or why we exist in the first place, but there are worse things than death . . . .[/quote] This is cold, heartless, and inhumane. Your reasons are not very sound. "Might" "Probably" "Possibly" Instead of "risk it" lets just kill him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotusTuusMaria Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 [quote name='alixr' post='1773879' date='Feb 6 2009, 01:36 PM']When I use the term unwanted, I mean unwanted by the parents having it. Not everyone is unselfish enough to give their child up for adoption . . . .[/quote] At least they are giving it life... Some are so selfish that they would rather kill it by abortion then give it up for adoption. We encounter this at the abortion facility all the time. Young women do not want to think of adoption... if they can't care for the child then no one should care for the child. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alixr Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1773895' date='Feb 6 2009, 02:03 PM']It can be irresponsibile to get pregnant, it is murder to kill your child because of the circumstances in your life.[/quote] Do you believe that a woman should be forced to go through with a pregnancy that is unhealthy for her, then? One that will almost certainly result in her death? That's the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alixr Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 [quote name='dominicansoul' post='1773898' date='Feb 6 2009, 02:05 PM']either the parents want it or they don't....if they decide not to give the baby up for adoption, then that usually means, they want to keep the child...and thus, the child is not [i]unwanted[/i]...[/quote] No, if they decide not to offer the child up for adoption, that means they don't want another family caring for their child. Not saying it's right, but it's naive to think that any parents who don't want to put their child up for adoption therefore want it. Sometimes they just don't want their child in the world being cared for by people they don't know. It is human vanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 [quote name='alixr' post='1773929' date='Feb 6 2009, 02:26 PM']Do you believe that a woman should be forced to go through with a pregnancy that is unhealthy for her, then? One that will almost certainly result in her death? That's the same thing.[/quote] The end does not justify the means. You don't murder someone, just in case they might cause you harm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alixr Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 [quote name='Sirklawd' post='1773900' date='Feb 6 2009, 02:07 PM']attachment doesnt mean anything at all to this debate. siamese twins do not have the right to kill eachother. Murder of the innocent is always wrong, it trumps everything. Tell them to come up with a better excuse.[/quote] BUT, it is not considered murder to sacrifice one siamese twin to save the other. So it does sort of hold true. Torture of the innocent is just as wrong as murder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 [quote name='alixr' post='1773934' date='Feb 6 2009, 02:31 PM']BUT, it is not considered murder to sacrifice one siamese twin to save the other. So it does sort of hold true. Torture of the innocent is just as wrong as murder.[/quote] No it is not. Torture by definition is not an intent to kill. Murder is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alixr Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 [quote name='TotusTuusMaria' post='1773919' date='Feb 6 2009, 02:18 PM']This is cold, heartless, and inhumane. Your reasons are not very sound. "Might" "Probably" "Possibly" Instead of "risk it" lets just kill him. [/quote] Cold, heartless and inhumane describe the houses in which many children who were unwanted by their parents grow up. I use might, probably and possibly to be fair, because I cannot make statements to apply absolutely to every person's situation. But if you take a moment and calculate the "risk", who better than the mother of the child to know what kind of environment/how much love her child is being born into? If it is wanted at all, or how she intends to treat it? That's not risking it, that's being pretty darn certain. If the parents are at all willing to consider adoption, I agree that's the best answer. But this is not always the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alixr Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1773939' date='Feb 6 2009, 02:34 PM']No it is not. Torture by definition is not an intent to kill. Murder is.[/quote] I realize torture is not an intent to kill but it is just as wrong. Victims of torture have their lives taken away in so many more ways than the mere physical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 [quote name='alixr' post='1773941' date='Feb 6 2009, 02:38 PM']Cold, heartless and inhumane describe the houses in which many children who were unwanted by their parents grow up. I use might, probably and possibly to be fair, because I cannot make statements to apply absolutely to every person's situation. But if you take a moment and calculate the "risk", who better than the mother of the child to know what kind of environment/how much love her child is being born into? If it is wanted at all, or how she intends to treat it? That's not risking it, that's being pretty darn certain. If the parents are at all willing to consider adoption, I agree that's the best answer. But this is not always the case.[/quote] So you consider murder better than an unhappy childhood? nice... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alixr Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1773932' date='Feb 6 2009, 02:30 PM']The end does not justify the means. You don't murder someone, just in case they might cause you harm.[/quote] But you are then murdering the mother by condemning her to death to save the child. This is equally wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alixr Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1773943' date='Feb 6 2009, 02:40 PM']So you consider murder better than an unhappy childhood? nice...[/quote] If you take time to research in detail the kind of things that are often done to unwanted children, then you will have a better idea of why I think that killing an embryo is better than torturing a child who can feel and reason. Sure it won't happen in all cases of abortion but if you outlaw abortion, you leave no room for mothers to get rid of unwanted children they would otherwise treat miserably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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